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    England, Scotland, and across Europe

    Posted by HuN on 29/11/2023, 14:31:46


    VAR seems to be getting more publicity than it wanted, and not all of it good.
    The latest is that the VAR official for the PSG - Newcastle game has been 'stood down' . . not the first (or last) and shows a definite lack of something for the way it's implemented.

    Since the game began there have been decisions made by officials that are contentious and argued about by fans, managers, and players.
    I'd say most football fans can recount hundreds of times a contraversial decision went for or against us, we moaned, we cried, we called the ref names and sang songs about him, and sometimes we laughed and jeered, taunting the opposition when things went our way.
    At the end of the day we put it all behind us and carried on, although there are some incidents that remain rooted in memories for years, the ones that completely changed an important game, whether for promotion, relegation, or a decent cup run.

    We still have those game changing decisions, some of which are embarassing, and some which can have a financial impact on clubs.

    Have the new rules (laws), better training for match officials, technology and the introduction of VAR actually made the game better for the long suffering fans of 'dodgy' and inconsistent decisions?
    Some technology I'd say yes, goal line technology for example. There's also technology that helps improve tactics, players fitness and performance, but that isn't an issue that affects fans enjoyment of a game.

    VAR
    What, exactly, is a 'clear and obvious error' if, for instance, an offside or penalty shout has to be decided by 4 minutes of looking at slow motion replays, from 7 different angles, of which 2 show yes, 2 show no, and 3 are inconclusive?
    VAR sometimes trawl through footage from one minute before an incident, looking for (and sometimes finding) a small inconsistency that nobody noticed, which is then used to refute an officials decision.
    VAR officials sometimes seem to have a different set of rules (laws) than the actual game officials do.

    Referees
    Why does one referee award a free kick (or penalty) for handball and a different ref waves play on?
    Why does one 'shoulder barge' lead to a ticking off and another to a yellow card?
    Why does one referee make allowance for shirt pulling and holding in the goal area at corners, yet another starts throwing cards around?

    The answer is because they're human, we're not all the same, we see things differently, we have alternate views on the difference between a fair (but hard) challenge and a foul. Some referees like to keep a game flowing, some blow the whistle at every oppotunity, that's just how it is, and it's just bad luck if the game you're playing in, managing, attending or just watching, gets the referee that doesn't have the same outlook on things as yourself. They, and we, are not robots (yet).

    My personal opinion, take VAR out of the game, let the officials do their job whether they do it to exact specifications or not. Don't turn the game into a sterile occasion with no atmosphere, no emotion, no instantaneous highs and lows. Let us talk about the 30 yard screamer that went in, and not the debatable niggly foul that occured 2 minutes before it that got it ruled out. We want to celebrate when the ball hits the back of the net, not 5 minutes later when a computer says we can (or can't).
    People attend games for the thrill, the passion, the excitement, the camaraderie (and beer), and the nervous uncertainty of what may happen during 90+ minutes, whether good, bad, or just plain ridiculous.

    An improvement isn't an inprovement if it changes nothing . . or makes it worse.

      Re: England, Scotland, and across Europe

      Posted by Hawkesworth on 29/11/2023, 15:32:00, in reply to "England, Scotland, and across Europe"

      Throw the fcucking thing in the bin and pretend it never existed.

      Only brought it in for the beige people who want perfect decisions.

        Re: England, Scotland, and across Europe

        Posted by Vladimir Luton on 29/11/2023, 16:14:21, in reply to "Re: England, Scotland, and across Europe"

        It was introduced because of pressure from clubs who complained about poor decisions costing them.
        It's been introduced and now clubs complain about poor decisions costing them.
        And in the meantime the fans have a worse experience.

          Re: England, Scotland, and across Europe

          Posted by bbb on 29/11/2023, 16:11:18, in reply to "Re: England, Scotland, and across Europe"

          Decent post.

          Re: England, Scotland, and across Europe

          Posted by Random hatter on 29/11/2023, 14:57:58, in reply to "England, Scotland, and across Europe"

          "The latest is that the VAR official for the PSG - Newcastle game has been 'stood down' . . not the first (or last) and shows a definite lack of something for the way it's implemented."

          What i don't understand is why the var official is fetting punished for bringing the refs attention to a possible penalty. It was the refs decision to give it. What a shambles.

            Re: England, Scotland, and across Europe

            Posted by Vladimir Luton on 29/11/2023, 14:57:40, in reply to "England, Scotland, and across Europe"

            There is a growing groundswell of opinion that VAR should be binned until it is fundamentally changed in its implementation.
            Some Wolves fans are, rightly, saying that the variance that they have been at the sharp end is no worse than if VAR wasn't used. Other Wolves fans think VAR shows the inherent corruption of the PL, but that's footbll fans for you.
            My opinion is similar to the author, the benefits of VAR are far outweighed by the costs. Take it out of the game until decisions can be made within 15 seconds of the incident. I think that technology should reach that ability within a decade. Then we can go towards robo-refs. Or move to a challenge system. The spectacle of football is suffering and the discourse around the sport is becoming farcical.

              Re: England, Scotland, and across Europe

              Posted by Don't Stop Believing on 29/11/2023, 15:42:09, in reply to "Re: England, Scotland, and across Europe"

              Don't completely bin. Keep for goal line technology and red car offences not seen by ref.

              Proposed off side rule change next year makes VAr less relevant to them.

              Have a proper hand ball rule- intentional only- as was always the case. Again no need for Var.

                Re: England, Scotland, and across Europe

                Posted by R27 on 29/11/2023, 18:17:16, in reply to "Re: England, Scotland, and across Europe"

                Agree with most of the above other than intentional handball. Only one person knows if the handball was intentional and that is the player himself, and he's hardly likely to admit to it.

                  Re: England, Scotland, and across Europe

                  Posted by jimmyp on 29/11/2023, 18:34:17, in reply to "Re: England, Scotland, and across Europe"

                  I've always thought that it should simply be if the player and/or his team gain an advantage then it's handball whether intentional or not.

                  That way nobody has to presume to know intention or do any mental gymnastics about whether an arm is in a natural position or not.

                  Still leaves plenty to argue about.

                  Cheers, Jim

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