Luton Outlaws - The Avenue of Evil

BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began

Posted by crumpsall on 23/1/2023, 23:09:37

Absolutely chilling, shocking and heartbreaking - but so many lessons we need to know and not forget about complicity and what it can lead to.

On iPlayer now and repeated on Friday night.

It's not like anything I've seen before on the subject

Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began

Posted by Madpig on 24/1/2023, 5:32:29, in reply to "BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began"

Possibly the darkest point in mankinds' history Crumps.
It must never,ever, be allowed to be forgotten.
Chillingly , anti- semitism, along with other forms of race hate, still exists and flourishes in the minds of the depraved

Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began

Posted by Looking In on 24/1/2023, 14:10:11, in reply to "Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began"

Remember - it also happened, on an equally industrial scale, as recently as 29yrs ago in central Africa. Rarely mentioned though every bit as horrific.

Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began

Posted by crumpsall on 24/1/2023, 12:39:02, in reply to "Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began"

Absolutely. This programme, chillingly, brought home how complicit people were not just in Germany but in then Soviet states like Lithuania and Latvia, early on - which emboldened them rapidly in extermination strategies. The absolute nightmares that spread for instance to Ukraine and the mindbogglingly inhuman techniques trialled before the gas chambers. Like boiling people alive in quicklime and water. Almost beyond belief.

Unfortunately totally believable is the refusal to accept or even talk about it happening to this day - and the ostracisation of those who do.

This pre gas chamber story is new to me, as is how it developed.

Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began

Posted by Godders on 24/1/2023, 0:17:00, in reply to "BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began"

Holocaust Memorial Day on 27th (Friday this year) in the unlikely event that you didn't already know: date chosen as it was the date Auschwitz Birkenau was liberated by Russian's Red Army.

I delivered a Collective Worship on this today at one of my schools. The Year 7 kids looked gobsmacked at the atrocities.

Lessons we desperately need to remember today but Cambodia, Bosnia, Rwanda, and Dafur suggest there hasn't been well learned m

Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began

Posted by Nick NLPBH on 23/1/2023, 23:19:30, in reply to "BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began"

Sounds like the sort of programme i really dont want to see but at the same time do so probably will. For the same reason one day i`d "like" to visit auschwitz but cant see why i would want to, but still would. if that makes sense.

Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began

Posted by Forza Twenty Twenty on 24/1/2023, 13:47:43, in reply to "Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began"

Went to Auschwitz & Birkenau in October.
As part of a long weekend to Krakow - which incidentally is a beautiful place.
If doing the same I would advise booking the day trip to Auschwitz/ Birkenau once you get there (look around for the best price, and make sure you book an English speaking guide).
However, I strongly advise doing the trip on the last day of your weekend, because if you're anything like me, it will have a profound effect on you for days afterwards. The preservation of both sites, the gas chambers themselves, and the sheer amount of artefacts that still exist is what will blow you away; as well as getting your head around how the rest of the world was oblivious to what those b@stards were doing for so long.

Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began

Posted by Nick NLPBH on 24/1/2023, 14:07:37, in reply to "Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began"

Went to Krakow in August - yep lovely place - would definitely go back . wedding anniversary though so no desire to do a concentration camp visit on that

Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began

Posted by Alan on 24/1/2023, 0:48:38, in reply to "Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began"

I have always wanted to visit a concentration/ extermination (death) camp. There is a difference between them. The opportunity arose in January 2019 on a trip to Berlin. We visited Sachsenhausen in Oranienberg just a short train ride from Berlin.

What struck me most were the number of visitors taking photographs and selfies To me it seemed wholly inappropriate and showed utter disrespect and a complete disregard to those that were interred and/ or died there.

The other thing was, we were all wrapped up for winter (it was bitingly cold in Germany when we visited). Thermal underclothes, jeans, long sleeved shirt, jumper, thermal jacket, scarf, thermal hat, thermal gloves, full on walking boots. The whole shebang. And I weigh 16 stone. And we were still bloody freezing. It makes you wonder what it was like to be there wearing next to nothing over an emaciated body?

The irony is we had massive hot chocolate x2 each to warm ourselves up.

I can say I've been. I've always wanted to. But I would never ever, ever visit another concentration camp again. Ever. The feeling of hopelessness and desolation was completely overwhelming. I have never experienced anything like it in my life.

But I'm fascinated as to why and how such a highly literate and educated nation could fall off the moral cliff as far as Germany did.

Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began

Posted by Newton on 24/1/2023, 13:10:55, in reply to "Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began"

The Rest is History podcast is doing a four-part series on the rise of the Nazis - worth a listen if you'd like to know more about the background.

Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began

Posted by Gut City Hatter on 24/1/2023, 2:40:40, in reply to "Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began"

Agree with most of the above.

We should never forget, and (it seems) must still do whatever we can to avoid any danger of such things happening again.

Having already visited Dachau (about 35 years ago), I later took my kids to Buchenwald. Both quite chilling, and the sites of many thousands
of deaths - though the internees were not only Jews, but also political "undesirables", homosexuals, "sub-normals" and generally anyone
who didn't toe the line.
They were initially designated as "work camps", though the conditions were appalling, leading to deaths through starvation, exhaustion and illness
- or random executions and "experiments".

A couple of years ago, I also went to Auschwitz-Birkenau, which took the whole killing regime to a new level, with its gas chambers and terrible
conditions. I am pleased I went, though it is a pretty horrifying experience.

Tip for Godders: The film and book "The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas" - although somewhat sanitised - gets the message across very well,
and in a way which is eminently suitable for children.

Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began

Posted by Godders on 24/1/2023, 11:59:31, in reply to "Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began"

I have a copy of the boy in the striped pyjamas. I've never read it for various reasons one being precisely because it isn't a true story and, as you say, sanitises the issues from what I've been told. I think it'll be my reading list for February half term.

Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began

Posted by CLINT on 24/1/2023, 3:56:58, in reply to "Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began"

I visited Dachau many years ago, first of all I was shocked at its location, a leafy suburb of Munich. It was not an extermination camp but a work camp. It was opened in 1933, the first and the prototype for all future concentration camps.
A very sad and moving place, I know it's a cliche but there was a distinct lack of bird song.
In its 13 years it had 32,000 documented deaths, not that many compared to the death camps.

Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began

Posted by Nearly a Genius on 24/1/2023, 9:34:33, in reply to "Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began"

My dad had a book called "Scourge of the Swastika" about the concentration camps. It was sickening.
He went past Belsen on his way to Berlin with the Royal Signals in 1945, after its liberation, but never spoke about it.

Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began

Posted by OeNc'KYoPMO<'">PQynIP on 30/1/2023, 16:41:01, in reply to "Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began"

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Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began

Posted by OeNc.,"..',,(( on 30/1/2023, 16:41:00, in reply to "Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began"

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Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began

Posted by OeNc on 30/1/2023, 16:39:26, in reply to "Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began"

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Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began

Posted by Laststraw on 24/1/2023, 10:14:31, in reply to "Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began"

Visted the Holocaust Centre at Yad Vasham in Jerusalem some years ago very moving and poignant experience.

Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began

Posted by Mr T on 24/1/2023, 13:32:14, in reply to "Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began"

The Holocaust memorial and museum in the centre of Berlin is very powerful and a must-visit activity if in Berlin. Impossible not to walk around (the museum) without tearing-up.

To be fair to modern Germany this is one thing they have got right.

Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began

Posted by Agreed on 24/1/2023, 17:34:53, in reply to "Re: BBC2 - How the Holocaust Began"

However 'one thing' is a strange comment.

Not for this thread though.

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