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    Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

    Posted by Crème Brûlée on 25/11/2021, 12:36:00

    It's probably the most basic human instinct to do so. The failure of national leaders to work together towards maintaining a dignified life for all their people is what we are seeing here. It is possible to do that but there are too many stupid people getting in the way of allowing it to happen. Including past and present governments who have wrecked other countries to such an extent that people living there naturally leave in search for something better.

      Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

      Posted by M on 25/11/2021, 19:36:10, in reply to "Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

      Is France that bad?

        Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

        Posted by Homer on 25/11/2021, 13:09:20, in reply to "Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"


        They wrecked their country, now they want to screw ours...

        How about decent homes for the English first ?

        Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

        Posted by Taffmead on 25/11/2021, 13:02:54, in reply to "Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

        Living in luton we have always welcomed those from different places,are people's towns as welcoming if they don't live in luton?



          Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

          Posted by Monkey on 25/11/2021, 14:57:07, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

          Your all missing the point... Why do they bypass about 20 countries to get to ours if they are that desperate... And have on average 3000 euros to pay for it... Not that desperate.....

          Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

          Posted by Cheated on 25/11/2021, 13:47:27, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

          And as everyone tells us, Luton’s a shithole, why is that?

            Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

            Posted by Taffmead on 25/11/2021, 13:54:49, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

            If you place people in already overcrowded places its making the problem worse and is dangerous for those in need already living there,alot of people saying they should be allowed in probably live in leafy suburb.Luton voted Brexit btw alot of Asians did because they found the competition from east Europeans wasn't to their liking ,bloody foreigners eh.

              Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

              Posted by HH on 25/11/2021, 13:52:49, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

              Let's be completely frank - Luton has been an objective fucking shithole for decades and decades.

              Rose tinted glasses and sentimentality on some Facebook groups and you leave thinking the town was was like Harpenden before the Arndale. Was it fuck.

              I do my best to defend my home town but don't for a minute pretend its predicament is down to immigration. It goes far deeper than that.

                Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                Posted by Crème Brûlée on 25/11/2021, 14:14:08, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                Mainly because it's population grew far too quickly, which in a way is what the likes of Andy et al appear to be afraid of with the influx of immigrants. To a certain extent I agree that it adds more pressure to locales that are already struggling. But the bit that doesn't seem to be acknowledged is that we are all victims, both those who have lived here since birth, and those newly arrived, of totally inadequate individuals taking on responsibilities within national and local government far beyond either their capabilities and/or their professional obligations. And actually the amount of immigrants coming in are a tiny fraction compared to pretty much every other country out there.

                  Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                  Posted by HH on 25/11/2021, 14:21:25, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                  Absolutely.

                  My grandparents and my Mum were Irish immigrants to Luton, via a 5 year stay in London.

                  I would suspect a large proportion of Lutonians have grandparents who were not born in this country. Certainly nearly everyone I went to school with did.

            Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

            Posted by Andy Cappucino on 25/11/2021, 12:50:29, in reply to "Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

            So this is not about seeking refuge from persecution as we have been told, but about seeking a 'better life, i.e. economic migration, cat out of bag.

            Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

            Posted by The Twitcher on 25/11/2021, 12:38:21, in reply to "Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

            My house is a bit crap. Can I come and live in yours at your expense.

            Cheers

              Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

              Posted by Whhatter on 25/11/2021, 12:53:22, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

              The migrants drowning is awful and something needs to be done. However, there is much poverty in this country that needs to be addressed aswell and if we cannot look after our own how are we able to look after immigrants? We have ex British soldiers who served this country who are homeless and living in poverty, but nothing seems to be done about them and they have been to hell and back. I blame France and Europe on the immigration problems. We are a country at bursting point and compared to Europe we are tiny.

              I would say that our lax benefits system adds to the problem and I fully understand why the migrants want to come here when they hear from relatives and friends already here about the free benefits, homes etc that they do eventually get. We need to stop that when we have reached a certain number of immigrants, but again our poor coastal defence against illegal immigration is so poor. Also,a lot immigrants will make money here fraudulently and some think nothing getting it through crime. We have enough of our own who do it, let alone people from other countries.

              It's not nice to live in a war torn country, or with a politically incorrect government but passing he buck just adds to the problems. Europe need to do more.

              Do we need to worry about the world our kids and grandkids will have to grow old in?

              Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

              Posted by Bless on 25/11/2021, 12:41:58, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

              Did he have a hand in making your house crap?

                Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                Posted by Crème Brûlée on 25/11/2021, 12:41:41, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                Have you thought about trying to improve your own house first? I'm assuming nobody has been round to rip out the copper pipes whilst hitting you with a stick and ordering you to go and make them a cup of tea? Or dropped a fukk ton of bombs on you either?

                  Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                  Posted by The Questioner on 25/11/2021, 12:55:56, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                  Whilst I agree with your thought process and it’s a tragedy when people die trying to cross the channel to achieve a better life . However richer countries have pumped billions into Africa over the last 30 years and the corruption and bad management very rarely change . I think we have tried to help “improve their house “ but sadly to no avail in most cases.

                    Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                    Posted by Crème Brûlée on 25/11/2021, 12:59:19, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                    We have systematically drained developing countries of their resources for centuries, and enabled corrupt leaders to steal public money since at least the 1950s onwards. The City of London is one of the worst culprits in the world for this. The aid money argument isn't that different to saying Jimmy Savile did a lot of work for charity.

                      Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                      Posted by The Questioner on 25/11/2021, 13:09:20, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                      So you do know this is 2021 . If you want to argue how badly we behaved around the world during the 19th Century you won’t get any debate from me .
                      However richer countries have pumped billions into Africa over the last 30/40 years and all the corruption and waste is off the scale . Have a look at Nigeria .

                        Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                        Posted by Nearly a Genius on 25/11/2021, 15:20:57, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                        You do know that most of the countries that formed the Empire were not independent until the middle of the 20th century, don't you?

                        And as the majority of current asylum seekers seem to be coming from the Middle East, because of the situation that has been caused by the wars in which the UK had a hand, it's not surprising for them to head here.

                        Also, don't let anyone fool you into believing that the benefit system, even for those born here, provides a lavish lifestyle.

                          Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                          Posted by The Questioner on 25/11/2021, 15:25:50, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                          Yes I know all that . Only slight disagreement is a lot of Albanians and Iranians on the list . Not sure how much influence we have had on those .

                            Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                            Posted by Crème Brûlée on 25/11/2021, 15:32:40, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                            What is your point exactly? Has anyone argued that every single immigrant is coming from countries we've helped to wreck? Can you show me where that has been claimed? Please can you also share the list you refer to?

                            Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                            Posted by Billy Wallace on 25/11/2021, 15:24:27, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                            Lavish enough for them to have mobile phones, flat screen TVs and smoke like chimneys.

                              Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                              Posted by Nearly a Genius on 25/11/2021, 15:31:42, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                              Wow! such a huge generalisation on very little evidence.
                              Don't believe everything the gutter press tells you, or your mate who "knows someone whose cousin's auntie is pretending to be disabled so they can get a new car".

                              And, in case you hadn't noticed, flat screen televisions are the only type produced now.

                              A mobile phone is needed to contact the DWP these days.

                                Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                Posted by Billy Wallace on 25/11/2021, 15:51:15, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                So what if their the only ones being produced. Plenty of second hand TV’s available that don’t cost the earth . Why aren’t they buying them????

                                And no you don’t have to have a mobile to contact the DWP.

                                  Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                  Posted by Nearly a Genius on 25/11/2021, 16:01:46, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                  Do you have any evidence of cathode-ray tube televisions being available to purchase second-hand? Charity shops don't like electrical goods, and places like Cash Converters don't even sell CDs and DVDs now, let alone outdated appliances.

                                  An d the DWP prefer you to use online rather than phone or paper; it is also quicker and cheaper. Especially since the Covid outbreak and staff working from home

                                    Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                    Posted by Billy Wallace on 25/11/2021, 16:09:18, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                    Are you saying you can’t buy second hand TVs???? Really? Ever heard of EBay? You can also get CRT Tv’s on there too.

                                    And you said you had to have a mobile phone to contact the DWP, that’s not true though is it?

                                      Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                      Posted by Nearly a Genius on 25/11/2021, 16:44:27, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                      To use e-bay you've got to have the internet.
                                      Or is that a "luxury" that people on benefits are allowed?
                                      Just stop digging, you'll end up in Australia.

                                        Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                        Posted by Billy Wallace on 25/11/2021, 16:51:27, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                        I never said anything about the internet though did I??? You brought that into this like a typical lefty moving the goal posts once your wrong or because you can’t be bothered read what I said properly and so you’re prejudice and bigotry takes over.

                                          Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                          Posted by Nearly a Genius on 25/11/2021, 17:08:22, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                          Most mobile phones are internet-enabled, and are cheaper than a laptop or tablet.
                                          Have you had to claim Universal Credit?
                                          Filling in your work-seeking diary is all done on the internet, and you have to be contactable at all times.

                                          But you carry on with your Daily Mail-type demonisation of out-of-work people, it obviously validates your existence in your eyes.

                                            Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                            Posted by Billy Wallace on 25/11/2021, 17:30:58, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                            Do you have to have a phone to use the internet then??? You said you had to have a phone to contact DWP. That’s not true and you were wrong again and so then resort to the Daily Mail rant because you can’t debate sensibly and have to resort to insults .

                                              Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                              Posted by Nearly a Genius on 25/11/2021, 17:47:42, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                              Ok, so you have to have the internet. A phone is probably the cheapest option. And a second-hand phone is more likely to be available second-hand than a CRT tv.


                                              Now give some evidence that people on benefits are all watching flat-screen TVs and smoking incessantly.

                                        Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                        Posted by Crème Brûlée on 25/11/2021, 16:15:34, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                        Most immigrants will already have phone's before they get here I would have thought? They aren't exactly the luxury item you are pretending they are.

                                        Also how many immigrants homes have you been to in order to know what kind of TV they have?

                                        For a supposed parody you aren't very funny to be honest.

                            Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                            Posted by Crème Brûlée on 25/11/2021, 13:27:08, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                            You do realise the City of London and other parties within the UK are currently facilitating corruption to this very day? Or in your mind that all stopped a good 30/40 years ago?

                              Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                              Posted by The Questioner on 25/11/2021, 14:34:39, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                              Please feel free to share ?

                                Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                Posted by Crème Brûlée on 25/11/2021, 14:45:29, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                Treasure Islands by Nicholas Shaxson is a good place to start. With a bit of googling you should be able to find a free pdf full version online.

                                  Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                  Posted by The Questioner on 25/11/2021, 15:01:26, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                  You can find anything you want on the internet and I am sure if I googled what you suggest I will find some journalist desperately trying to find some dirt and a story.
                                  You are ignoring my point that rich countries have sent billions to African countries over the last 40 years and it has regularly disappeared in corruption .
                                  Which makes your statement below frankly ridiculous.
                                  You do realise the City of London and other parties within the UK are currently facilitating corruption to this very day?

                                    Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                    Posted by Crème Brûlée on 25/11/2021, 15:04:53, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                    I've done exactly what you asked, provided you with the means to educate yourself on this matter. If you followed through and actually read it you would then realise that what you have just written is total nonsense. Read the book and you will see.

                                      Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                      Posted by The Questioner on 25/11/2021, 15:10:59, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                      I was hoping you would provide a few examples to back up your statement ?

                                        Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                        Posted by Crème Brûlée on 25/11/2021, 15:17:26, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                        How about this one seeing as you need to be spoonfed



                                        LONDON (Reuters Breakingviews) - In May 2016, David Cameron raised an uncomfortable topic. At an anti-corruption summit in London, the former British prime minister sat alongside Nigeria’s president and other dignitaries and declared that money laundering was “the cancer at the heart of so many problems we need to tackle in our world”. The setting was telling, as the British capital had become the location of choice for oligarchs and corporate crooks to sanitise their ill-gotten gains.



                                        https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN26N29S

                                          Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                          Posted by The Questioner on 25/11/2021, 15:23:02, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                          Really . That is has so much evidence attached to it ….I am totally convinced . You have a journalist statement with zero facts ffs . Oh hang on DC was sitting next to the Nigerian President ….jeez .

                                            Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                            Posted by Crème Brûlée on 25/11/2021, 15:26:52, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                            The article refers to a book with specific examples. I have also pointed you to another book with specific real examples. You literally can't be bothered to do anything other than criticise me for not being able to get you to read either book. Do you realise how stupid you appear to be?

                                              Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                              Posted by The Questioner on 26/11/2021, 0:36:49, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                              Do you realise you haven’t given any facts to back your nonsense up .
                                              You have quoted one ( frankly irrelevant statement ) and call me stupid. Careful if those lizards mate. 😂😂
                                              Oh and told me to read a book …. Have a read of Cinderella fella and we can carry on our discussion.

                                                Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                                Posted by Crème Brûlée on 26/11/2021, 1:44:57, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                                Here's another one numbnuts

                                                https://www.icij.org/investigations/fincen-files/hsbc-moved-vast-sums-of-dirty-money-after-paying-record-laundering-fine/

                                                  Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                                  Posted by The Questioner on 26/11/2021, 4:30:45, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                                  Bless you treacle reverting to name calling . Lose an argument and shout and abuse …very classy .
                                                  So let me help you get back on track about what we were discussing. Money given to Africa from richer countries that was then wasted and lost in corruption.
                                                  You then claim LONDON is to blame and then post an article about HSBC failing in Hong Kong ….I am trying to find the connection but think we both know there isn’t one .
                                                  Have another go if you want to keep digging and not from some random journalist 5 years ago with zero substance.
                                                  However if you want clarification around my point just look up corruption in Africa. You don’t even need to read a book .

                                                    Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                                    Posted by Crème Brûlée on 26/11/2021, 9:58:41, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                                    Let me spell it out for you, and apologies for assuming initially that you had the intelligence to do this for yourself.

                                                    1. You inferred that money given in aid to foreign countries over the last 30/40 years has been wasted because those countries are corrupt.

                                                    2. I reply that the corruption takes place in large part via the City of London. At this stage I assume you can work out for yourself that the corruption you mentioned is linked to the corruption I mentioned. There will obviously be other Western countries involved in facilitating corruption in countries who receive foreign aid from the UK, but I have attempted to point out to you that the City of London is involved to a very large degree in the same thing. And also many other off shore locations all of which are linked to the UK. Basically the UK gives with one hand and takes with the other.

                                                    3. You ask me to'share'

                                                    4. I share details of an entry level text on the subject. In case you can't be bothered to buy that book I helpfully inform you that it is probably possible to find the very same text for free on the internet, in pdf format.

                                                    5. You reply that you could easily do an internet search and find any old journalist with an axe to grind or words to that effect.

                                                    6. I point out that you actually need to read the book in order to become aware of it's contents. A bizarre concept I know. But that is how books work. Annoying, I know. So much easier to assume you already know what the contents of books are. Oh well.

                                                    7. Feeling a tinge of sympathy for your plight, and deciding to give you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't as monumentally dense as you appear to be, I give you another link which refers to another text on the subject. Except this time much of the text's findings are condensed into a short summary, something easier to digest than a whole book.

                                                    8. You reply that the easy to digest summary is rubbish and contains no factual evidence. That's probably because it is a starting point. You would need to read the book it refers to if you want specific referenced examples. Just like the first book that was recommended to you.

                                                    9. I send you another link with indisputable examples of how HSBC has been caught facilitating money laundering and a Ponzi scheme. HSBC has it's head quarters in.... (can you guess!?...)

                                                    The City of London!

                                                    I know the next bit is difficult to get your head around so I will explain further.

                                                    Corruption on an international scale occurs in multiple places around the world. Odd that isn't it? Why isn't it all neat and tidy and easy for law enforcers to uncover? A bit unreasonable of those committing all those crimes. Unbelievably though, that is what happens! Who would have thought it!? But guess what one of the reoccurring common denominators is?... (can you guess!?...)

                                                    It's The City of London!

                                                    10. You reply that it refers to Hong Kong.

                                                    11. I reply with a step by step guide to explain the confusing parts to you.

                                                    12. (Prediction) You say something along the lines of, you still haven't provided me with any specific examples (I have, you just can't be bothered to read them). You say something along the lines of, did you really go to all that effort what a waste of time (yes and yes, at least we agree you are too dense for any of this to get through to you).

                                                    Have a nice day 👍




                                                      Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                                      Posted by The Questioner on 26/11/2021, 12:47:46, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                                      Doesn’t matter how many irrelevant points you write - they are still irrelevant .
                                                      Try to stick to the topic and the debate is simple .
                                                      When I suggested that millions in support for Africa over the years had been lost in corruption you inferred that the City of London was to blame. Which is bollox .
                                                      If however you want to talk about HSBC ‘s money laundering issues ( which have zero relevance to what we are talking about ) then by all means start a new thread .
                                                      However if you are still convinced that the corruption in African aid starts on the City of London then please paste some proof.
                                                      Simples ….
                                                      I will thanks ….. just woken up to gorgeous sunshine and 25% …you have a good one as well .

                                                        Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                                        Posted by Crème Brûlée on 26/11/2021, 16:00:52, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                                        25% what? Brain capacity compared to everyone else? It's not bollox that the City of London and the various banks, financial services etc that operate within it's special rules that makes it all possible for them to facilitate billions (very likely hundreds of billions) of pounds of illicit funds transfers/deposits/money laundering/tax avoidance etc under a veil of secrecy every year but carry on ignoring the sources I have already provided that would help you to realise this for yourself.

                                                          Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                                          Posted by The Questioner on 26/11/2021, 23:42:54, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                                          25 degrees ….actually a bit warmer but very nice .
                                                          You are either deliberately ignoring our argument or just trying to deflect ….either way most intelligent people understand that way to much of the money directed to Africa ( either via taxpayers or charity ) is embezzled . The #### up of the MLRO at HSBC is irrelevant .
                                                          You have tried to be patronising all through this thread so it’s.my turn ….happy to help you understand …

                                                            Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                                            Posted by Crème Brûlée on 27/11/2021, 11:12:25, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                                            No the patronising only came in once you refused, like a child, to read the book I pointed you towards that does actually contain examples of how City of London is used by criminals, including embezzlers, to get their ill gotten gains out of their own country. You also mistakenly claimed that I said that I am convinced that "the corruption in African aid starts on(sic, I am guessing you meant in?) the City of London". I have never said it starts there, but that it helps facilitate a major proportion of the global flows of illicit funds. Due to the unique ability of City of London to pick and choose which UK laws apply within it's jurisdiction thanks to their Remembrencer's unique ability to interfere with Westminster MPs as UK laws are drafted, it means they can provide morally dubious and/or illegal services without easy legal recourse. The Lord Mayor acts as their global salesman and makes damn sure to visit as many other countries as possible to inform them of these services they can provide. City of London has been able to utilise other UK offshore dependencies to specialise specifically in secret trusts that enable among other things both money laundering and tax avoidance.

                                                            So just to get this straight, are you saying that you don't believe City of London is involved in any way in facilitating the embezzlement of public money from countries that receive foreign aid from the UK? Is that precisely what we are in disagreement about here?

                                                              Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                                              Posted by The Questioner on 27/11/2021, 11:54:25, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                                              No my original point was that so much of the money raised to help African countries ends up in the wrong hands ( in those countries ) . You then went on to blame the City of London for this as knowingly helping that corruption , which is bollox .

                                                                Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                                                Posted by Crème Brûlée on 27/11/2021, 12:14:57, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                                                I'm assuming then that you are trying to say that you think I am claiming that city of London is responsible for the first act of corruption? If that is what you are saying then let me be clear, I am not saying that nor have I said that previously. I am saying that City of London is used by criminals, the instigators of embezzlement for example, to move their money about. Therefore City of London is complicit in these crimes, but not the instigator of these crimes.

                                                                  Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                                                  Posted by The Questioner on 27/11/2021, 14:57:00, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                                                  enabled corrupt leaders to steal public money since at least the 1950s onwards. The City of London is one of the worst culprits in the world for this.
                                                                  So the above is what you wrote . Having worked in the City for 30 years I can tell you the biggest increase in spending for every financial organisation is law , compliance and MLRO’s .
                                                                  That doesn’t mean individuals won’t make mistakes or even try to commit fraud but they have pretty much stopped African aid money being embezzled in the UK .
                                                                  So you are incorrect ( btw I am sure if you dig hard enough you might find the odd case where somebody has ####ed up ) but in the main we have put our house in order . Meanwhile African aid money continues to disappear .


                                                                    Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                                                    Posted by Crème Brûlée on 27/11/2021, 15:31:29, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                                                    I stand by the quote from me that you refer to here. British Banks were prevented from investing abroad following the Suez crisis in the late 1950s. They went to Bank of England and set up an intermediary service that became known as the Eurodollar market. This was a system that enabled evasion of regulations by claiming that foreign currency deals were between parties outside of related regulatory jurisdictions, even when the intermediary service was based in the City of London. Simultaneously the City of London set up secrecy jurisdictions in various offshore British dependencies that meant that trusts could be created without any obligation to declare them. The result of these 2 initiatives was that it attracted vast sums of illicit money. Have you heard of the Bank of Credit and Commerce International? They financed terrorism, CIA overseas operations, financial fraud and money laundering. Are you aware that the combined debt of sub Saharan countries of Africa stood at $177bn in 2008 whilst the net outflows of misappropriated public money stood at $944bn for the period 1970 to 2008? Perhaps you just don't feel comfortable with this sort of information? I don't know why you are so keen to dispute it? Have you personally benefitted from it perhaps?

                                                        Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                                        Posted by Rotten Government Spotter on 26/11/2021, 10:54:04, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                                        You do realise this is Zed you're trying to engage with? Call him out for making himself look a cúnt and he just makes himself look an even bigger cúnt.

                                                        And, as just proved - it makes for great entertainment

                                                      Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                                                      Posted by HH on 26/11/2021, 7:28:32, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                                                      You seriously think no money laundering whatsoever is facilitated within the City of London?

                                                      It's rife. Those wanting to do it specifically target London because it is a huge financial centre. Easy to miss their transactions amongst the millions which happen each day.

                                                      Stating so isn't an attack on this country, it's a statement of fact.

                          Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?

                          Posted by The Twitcher on 25/11/2021, 12:45:06, in reply to "Re: Why shouldn't people who live in a wrecked country seek a better life?"

                          If they did, I’d be a man and defend my home(land).

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