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    Missed Southgate debate

    Posted by Bilko on 9/6/2021, 11:32:13

    Hi
    Just read Southgate letter
    Well written
    I don't know how people can be upset.
    We are a country with a history.

    If we accept our history we Will be better off.



      But when he had a golden chance

      Posted by m on 9/6/2021, 18:15:36, in reply to "Missed Southgate debate "

      To make a real stand against racism when the players were being abused in Bulgaria he bottled it.

      Re: Missed Southgate debate

      Posted by Old hats on 9/6/2021, 14:35:44, in reply to "Missed Southgate debate "

      "Anyone who boos is a racist. Anyone who voted Leave is a racist... "

        Re: Missed Southgate debate

        Posted by Cheated on 9/6/2021, 16:23:07, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

        Anyone who breathes is racist

          Re: Missed Southgate debate

          Posted by Frank Sideboard on 9/6/2021, 16:36:22, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

          Can I propose an experiment?
          I'll keep breathing to see if it turns me racist and you can stop breathing to see if it stops you being racist. Deal?

            Re: Missed Southgate debate

            Posted by Patriotic Hatter on 9/6/2021, 16:29:15, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

            If you boo taking the knee you are being racist. Simples.

              Re: Missed Southgate debate

              Posted by bbb on 10/6/2021, 11:32:33, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                Re: Missed Southgate debate

                Posted by SAHB on 9/6/2021, 16:42:27, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                I'm not sure those who are booing are racist or not.
                They are certainly misguided.
                What do they Think they will achieve? It is a small minded petty action that will divide people, If you disagree with the players taking the knee fine but don't boo your own players, booing is only going to create a bad atmosphere.
                For the life of me can't see the harm in it, it is just a gesture, anyone who gets upset with it needs to take a look at themselves and wonder if there is something more important they could get triggered about.
                People get upset so easily nowadays.

                  Re: Missed Southgate debate

                  Posted by MetalHatter on 9/6/2021, 16:34:06, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                  If you cheer to counter people booing taking the knee - you are racist. Simples.

                    Re: Missed Southgate debate

                    Posted by MetalHatter on 9/6/2021, 16:46:39, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                    Because you'd have to have an incredibly prejudiced mindset for your brain to operate that way.

                      Re: Missed Southgate debate

                      Posted by HH on 9/6/2021, 16:54:18, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                      I've read the reasons why the English players are taking the knee.

                      If you think those reasons deserve booing then I'm not sure where we go from there.

                        Re: Missed Southgate debate

                        Posted by RGDave on 9/6/2021, 18:52:15, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                        It's probably more basic than that and a very English thing. A lot of football people are bored with the whole thing and don't like being told what to do and the perceived virtue signalling and possibly unfair view of the BLM movement being in hoc to some fairly radical elements. For the record, I've no problem with players taking the knee but believe it's had it's time. About 2% of people are nutcase racists and they infest the internet. That's the way it is.

                          Re: Missed Southgate debate

                          Posted by MetalHatter on 9/6/2021, 18:46:43, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                          So if the players decided to do a 45 degree salute to raise awareness of racism you'd be fine with that?

                          I know it's an extreme example and obviously less severe, but that's the issue of using political symbols from outside sport.

                            Re: Missed Southgate debate

                            Posted by jimmyp on 9/6/2021, 18:52:41, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                            Taking a knee is not a political symbol from outside sport.

                            It's quite close to being the opposite, you absolute rim-job.

                            Cheers, Jim

                              Re: Missed Southgate debate

                              Posted by MetalHatter on 9/6/2021, 19:15:15, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                              Again your ignorance astounds me. Yes obviously it started in the NFL it was then used and appropriated by BLM who drew a way bigger audience to it. It is absolutely a symbol of BLM.

                              The swastika wasn't invented by the Nazis you utter tosspot. Yet what do we think of when we see it?

                              Am I actually conversing with apes?

                                Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                Posted by jimmyp on 9/6/2021, 19:37:35, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                Took you a while to google that, point proven.

                                You're the epitome of a clueless gobshite, issuing forth on something that you know next to the square-root of fuck all about.

                                BLM bigger audience than NFL? Yeah, good luck with that one.

                                Cheers, Jim

                                  Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                  Posted by MetalHatter on 9/6/2021, 20:10:11, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                  Glad you've accepted my point.


                                  Of course it has a bigger audience ffs, it spent 6 months on every news channel and plastered over every broadcast. Do you live under a rock? Who watched the NFL? Jesus ####ing Christ I can't actually cope with this, talking to you is degrading.

                                  You are a certain breed of person who I honestly just think should kill themselves. Your words are toxic,smug and shockingly false so do the world a favour will you!

                                    Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                    Posted by jimmyp on 9/6/2021, 22:31:28, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                    Yeah, that would be pretty embarrassing for you if you had any self-awareness or intelligence at all.

                                    It's a good job, for you, that ignorance is bliss.

                                    Cheers, Jim

                                      Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                      Posted by And there we have it. on 9/6/2021, 22:15:17, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                      You, sir, are a ####.

                                        Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                        Posted by Doctor Ince on 9/6/2021, 21:09:29, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                        Wow

                                          Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                          Posted by Too late on 9/6/2021, 20:13:51, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                          Bath and toaster please.

                                        Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                        Posted by To be honest on 9/6/2021, 19:25:55, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                        You are conversing like one!

                                          Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                          Posted by MetalHatter on 9/6/2021, 19:32:08, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                          Don't be racist

                                            Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                            Posted by Too late on 9/6/2021, 19:41:36, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                            He has been for a long while, anti white even the midget sized ones, no empathy with the white tiny ones whatsoever.

                                Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                Posted by HH on 9/6/2021, 16:40:24, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                How on earth does that logic hold?

                            Re: Missed Southgate debate

                            Posted by Frank Sideboard on 9/6/2021, 15:20:28, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                            "Anyone who voted leave is a racist" - definitely not the case.

                            "Anyone who boos is a racist" - probably not far off the mark.

                              Re: Missed Southgate debate

                              Posted by crumpsall on 9/6/2021, 15:27:20, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                              That seems pretty much spot on to me Mr Sideboard.

                            Re: Missed Southgate debate

                            Posted by jimmyp on 9/6/2021, 12:02:53, in reply to "Missed Southgate debate "

                            Because they don't like overt statements or gestures of anti-racism.

                            And, why wouldn't they like that?

                            Cheers, Jim

                              Re: Missed Southgate debate

                              Posted by Bored in Flitwick on 9/6/2021, 12:19:19, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                              Southgate should stick to managing the team..he not a politician..May be his next job will be..interesting to see how we do in this competition..is this debate deflecting from poor performance

                                Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                Posted by Nearly a Genius on 9/6/2021, 17:03:10, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                Doesn't "managing the team" include looking after the players' welfare, both mental and physical?
                                Do the people booing think of the effect on the players' morale and self-esteem?

                                  Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                  Posted by Garstang Hatter on 9/6/2021, 12:22:19, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                  Funny how when footballers, managers, etc mess up and get into the press for the wrong reasons, we always hear about how they are supposed to be role models and should behave as such. Yet when they actually are role models, they get told to stick to football.

                                    Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                    Posted by Music Critic on 9/6/2021, 12:31:48, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                    Yep

                                    I'm sure those saying 'stick to football' would DEFINITELY be saying the same thing if Southgate had said 'stop being woke snowflakes' or whatever

                                    Wouldn't they? Or maybe not. Maybe they'd have been saying 'good old Southgate, telling it like it is...'

                                      Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                      Posted by Ches Fordroad on 9/6/2021, 13:31:55, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                      KEEP POLITICS OUT OF SPORT say politicians, talking about sport.

                                      Funnily enough, it's rarely the ones who actually seem to have a genuine interest in sport whose voices get heard at times like these

                                        Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                        Posted by E1 on 9/6/2021, 12:33:38, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                        We got are country back..

                                        Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                        Posted by Bored in Flitwick on 9/6/2021, 12:29:12, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                        Do not preach..stick your your job southgate..win a competition..

                                          Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                          Posted by jimmyp on 9/6/2021, 12:46:11, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                          So it's not his job to stick up for his players when they torrents of racial abuse online and then get booed when they make a statement/gesture against such cretinous behaviour.

                                          Righto.

                                          If he were to say something 'political' with which you agreed, would you still be telling him to stick to his job? You can say 'yes', it seems unlikely that it would ever happen.

                                          Cheers, Jim

                                            Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                            Posted by MetalHatter on 9/6/2021, 12:59:47, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                            The reason I hate Southgate is because he's a terrible manager who's failed to pick, utilise and organise a fairly decent set of footballers from a pool of players who are actually very good.

                                            The media have had their tongue up his arse for far too long. Yes he says some nice things and seems like a relatively normal, calm bloke. That doesn't excuse him for doing a terrible job and I'm tired of people's reactions focusing on things outside of football rather than what's happening on the pitch - to the detriment of the team. Likewise the absolute dismissal of people's opinions on why they're booing the take a knee stance is disgusting. To basically call the majority fans stupid is the most arrogant and misplaced self righteous bullshit I have ever seen. I respect the taking a knee stance means different things to different people and it's this confusion that has caused such a mess. No one who is booing is racist. To call them such as idiotic.

                                            And to be clear I'm not in favour of booing the players but I'm certainly not in favour of continuing to take the knee. It is embarrassing that it's been allowed to go on for so long.

                                            We will be one of a small handful of teams still doing it, we need to catch up with the rest of the world.

                                              Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                              Posted by jimmyp on 9/6/2021, 14:24:06, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                              More bollocks.

                                              I'm not "dismissing people's opnions on why they're booing the take a knee stance" I'm, correctly, in the vast majority of cases, categorising them as racist, because they are.

                                              The taking of a knee has been repeatedly, including by Southgate, clarified as not being associated with or an extension of ANY political movement. So, there shouldn't be any confusion and as such I'd ask what is your non-racist reason for not being in favour of the players continuing to do so if they fucking want to. I'm not sbjected to torrents of racial-abuse on a daily basis, they are. I'm happy to be guided by what they think is right.

                                              Cheers, Jim

                                                Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                Posted by MetalHatter on 9/6/2021, 14:47:46, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                If you genuinely think the majority of fans are racist then you yourself are out of touch. The world isn't as bad as you think it is so come and live in the real one.

                                                  Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                  Posted by jimmyp on 9/6/2021, 16:32:25, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                  Well, I didn't say that. If that's what you genuinely think I said, you're definitely one of the people who it's not worth discussing the issue with.

                                                  You've decided that it's all intrinsically-linked to BLM, cancel-culture, white privilege/guilt, PC, woke, liberalism, you can't say anything any more and why can't we just...

                                                  Cheers, Jim

                                                    Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                    Posted by MetalHatter on 9/6/2021, 16:41:07, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                    You said you think people who boo are racist? So you think the majority of fans at the England games were racists? That is an absolutely insane world view.

                                                    Yes I do believe taking the knee and BLM are linked? You don't? Have you been asleep for the past year.

                                                    I'm really struggling to understand your view point. You need to be more open to different opinions as your way way off.

                                                      Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                      Posted by SAHB on 9/6/2021, 16:54:34, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                      Even after virtually everyone has said it has nothing to do with BLM.
                                                      Why do you?
                                                      I know it started there but it has evolved into something else.
                                                      I think the viewpoint the more people boo the more reason to carry on is valid.
                                                      What real damage is taking the knee doing, it is gesture of unity between teammates showing those that abuse some they are together. That is all.

                                                        Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                        Posted by jimmyp on 9/6/2021, 16:51:48, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                        I did say that. I don't think the majority of fans at the games booed.

                                                        No, I don't. Because I have been paying attention, to the whole development of the various different facets of the whole situation. For example the inarguable FACT that the taking of a knee preceeded BLM by quite some time. Also, for example, I've managed to not ignore the number of times over the last week that it has been explicitly stated that England players taking a knee has fuck all to do with ANY political movement, BLM specifically implied.

                                                        That's because you're stupid and you don't want to. I don't need to be open to wilfully stupid opinions at all and it's you're.

                                                        Cheers, Jim

                                                          Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                          Posted by MetalHatter on 9/6/2021, 19:21:37, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                          So you didn't watch the games then? Clear majority were booing. You're living in your own world. Someone stating something doesn't make it true does it. They are inextricably linked, how about when FA made teams wear "black lives matter" on their kit? Was that not linked to BLM?

                                                          Seriously you need to start observing the world as it is. Not as it's talked about. Get help.

                                                            Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                            Posted by Bullshit Spotter on 9/6/2021, 19:28:58, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                            'Clearly the majority' 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

                                                            Maybe you weren't watching!!!!

                                                    Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                    Posted by crumpsall on 9/6/2021, 15:15:05, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                    If you think those booing the knee aren't racist you're talking out of your arse. They don't need to applaud it if they don't like it, but booing is a statement.

                                                    If that's the way they feel, better they have the balls to come out and state what they actually mean rather than this 'booing politics in football' bullshit.

                                                    Judging by the volume levels it's about the same proportion as those who still seem to think we're at war with the IRA and carry on with the outdated No Surrender chant.

                                                      Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                      Posted by Cheated on 9/6/2021, 16:27:26, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                      Hereís one for you crumps, do you think Dianne Abbott is racist?

                                                        Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                        Posted by crumpsall on 9/6/2021, 16:52:30, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                        I think she has certainly made a couple of unfortunate racist remarks. And has paid the price for them.

                                                        Not in the same league as Boris of course, but for some reason he seems to be forgiven for them. Wonder why?

                                                          Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                          Posted by Bored in Flitwick on 9/6/2021, 17:20:16, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                          Southgate got his own name branded menswear range now..so kneeling..talking shit in an interview..wearing his own branded clobber

                                                      Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                      Posted by Bored in Flitwick on 9/6/2021, 16:16:55, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                      They are not racsist if they boo..pointing out this is football..not a political rally..do not force people to watch you perform a political gesture..speak on a TV debate..so I can switch you off..this is not a racsist country..some are attempting to portray it as one

                                                        Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                        Posted by crumpsall on 9/6/2021, 16:29:27, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                        Booing players who are taking the knee is what then?

                                                        They are making a statement about racism.
                                                        Booing that statement is also making a statement - about racism.

                                                        It's that simple.

                                                        Silence can be a protest too, no one is asking you to clap them for taking the knee.


                                                          Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                          Posted by HH on 9/6/2021, 16:25:06, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                          Have you read their reasons why they're doing it?

                                                          Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                          Posted by clarky on 9/6/2021, 15:46:29, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                          letting yerself down on this crumps

                                                            Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                            Posted by crumpsall on 9/6/2021, 15:51:53, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                            I most certainly am not, but your opinion comes as no surprise.

                                                            Seem like you have the wrong impression about who I am anyhow, given your post about the Midland the other day. Don't recall there being a pub of that name in Luton anyhow (there was a Hotel way back) let alone one I drank in of a Sunday.

                                                              Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                              Posted by MVhatter on 9/6/2021, 16:07:38, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                              Sorry to jump in on an on going previous discussion, but there was a boozer at the bottom of the bus station called the Midland Arms, it was half a pub. Changed to an Irish themed place later.

                                                                Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                Posted by clarky on 9/6/2021, 16:12:09, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                bet ol crumps is frantically going through his record books and jotters now,sweating that some people know more than him

                                                                  Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                  Posted by crumpsall on 9/6/2021, 16:56:20, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                  Don't judge me by your 'standards' clarky - I'm not insecure, perhaps you are.

                                                                    Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                    Posted by clarky on 9/6/2021, 16:58:24, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                    this isnt crumpsall posting

                                                                      Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                      Posted by crumpsall on 9/6/2021, 17:01:33, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                      No, that's you posting clarky. Have you had a bang on the head?

                                                                    Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                    Posted by MVhatter on 9/6/2021, 16:13:43, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                    Please don't think for one second I agree with anything you say.

                                                                  Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                  Posted by clarky on 9/6/2021, 16:03:09, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                  eddies bar was once called the midland

                                                                    Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                    Posted by crumpsall on 9/6/2021, 16:13:39, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                    Ah, gotcha. Thanks to you and MV.

                                                                    Vaguely rings a bell now but that was never my neck of the woods and I don't think I ever set foot in it.

                                                                      Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                      Posted by clarky on 9/6/2021, 16:52:55, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                      see what you done by the way

                                                                        Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                        Posted by clarky on 9/6/2021, 16:48:28, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                        you was the expert on it a little while back?

                                                                          Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                          Posted by crumpsall on 9/6/2021, 17:26:22, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                          No I wasn't, never claimed to be an expert on pubs in Luton - for very good reasons!

                                                                          Yet again you seem to be confusing me with someone else.

                                                                          Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                          Posted by MVhatter on 9/6/2021, 16:15:35, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                          It was 98 pence a pint for Guinness when I drank in there.

                                                              Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                              Posted by Snuggles McNuggets on 9/6/2021, 14:23:37, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                              To basically call the majority fans stupid is the most arrogant and misplaced self righteous bullshit I have ever seen

                                                              He's right though isn't he? You don't need to look far.

                                                                Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                Posted by jimmyp on 9/6/2021, 14:26:42, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                Well, he is and not just because he's not calling the "majority" stupid.

                                                                On both occasions at the Riverside, the booing was drowned out with applause so I'd say the majority were not the stupid ones, there.

                                                                Now, we all know what sort of people claim their perverse viewpoint to be that of the "majority" don't we?

                                                                Cheers, Jim

                                                                  Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                  Posted by Old hats on 9/6/2021, 14:41:56, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                  It wasn't drowned out with applause. It was replaced by applause. Everyone had their say, no argy bargy, it's just a divisive issue with some misunderstanding on both sides.

                                                                  The likes of Ian Wright losing his sh!t because a 12-year-old calls him a monkey does not justify continuing the knee, imo. I'm definitely up for any fresh approach to fighting racism, however. This one has run it's course and has become a distraction for the players when they should be focusing on the match.

                                                                    Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                    Posted by jimmyp on 9/6/2021, 16:27:37, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                    I'm sorry, 12 year-olds calling people monkeys is exactly the sort of thing that does justify continuing to protest against racist abuse and injustice in whichever way the players see fit.

                                                                    Why do you think there needs to be a 'fresh approach' and what do you suggest that that should be?

                                                                    I'd suggest the prospect of torrents of racial abuse on social-media is probably something more of a distraction. Also dickheads booing because they can't think in words of more than one-syllable.

                                                                    Cheers, Jim

                                                                Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                Posted by Ches Fordroad on 9/6/2021, 13:34:18, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                Only one other England manager * has got a team to any tournament semi-final outside of England.

                                                                Yeah, terrible.

                                                                * Funnily enough he was constantly stated as being shite.

                                                                  Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                  Posted by Rob on 9/6/2021, 15:42:02, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                  Not entirely true. Alf Ramsey took us to the 1968 European Championships semi-finals.

                                                                  (I assume you were talking about Bobby Robson).

                                                                    Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                    Posted by Ches Fordroad on 9/6/2021, 16:04:06, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                    I was.

                                                                    Point taken - the European Championships had a very different format back then so a direct comparison isn't really valid.

                                                                  Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                  Posted by Ramridge Raider on 9/6/2021, 13:16:49, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                  I have a few doubts about Southgate but to say he is a 'Terrible Manager' is absolutely absurd. His track record so far is excellent in comparison to his predecessor's, WC semi, Nations Cup Finals and qualification for the Euro's.

                                                                  I think he has become a bit conservative over the last year particularly with the quality of attacking players that we have, but that's just my opinion. Ultimately results define a manager and if he wins the competition by playing conservatively I wouldn't give a toss.

                                                                  If we get knocked out in the group stages then he probably deserves to be labelled a 'terrible manager's.

                                                                    Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                    Posted by MetalHatter on 9/6/2021, 13:20:54, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                    Okay fair point. I'll reserve judgement until after the group stages.

                                                                    Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                    Posted by HH on 9/6/2021, 13:16:33, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                    I think your judgement on Southgate, based on the job he has done so far, is incredibly harsh. Although I'm intrigued to see how he performs at this tournament. I'm slightly sympathetic to the suggestion we had a fairly easy run during 2018 and we lost to the two half decent teams we faced.

                                                                    Each to their own but I genuinely don't see why fans boo players taking the knee. What is the issue, exactly?

                                                                      Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                      Posted by MetalHatter on 9/6/2021, 13:30:37, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                      My understanding is the issue is that fans see taking the knee as synonymous with the Black Lives Matter movement and everything that's associated with it. For instance defunding the police, riots and antifa mob rule. Yes the BLM also has some good things associated with it but the point is they don't undo the bad. Now it's obviously very complicated as this all happened largely in the USA and I dislike how intertwined our culture's have become.

                                                                      The footballers and FA say it is just a stand against racism which is also a valid perspective. The point is though is that this is far far more complex than the FA are pretending and their attempt to silence and dismiss the opinions of people booing is driving a huge divide between people. I personally think a gesture against racism, whilst a nice idea, stopped being effective years ago - as players like Wilf Zaha also believe.

                                                                      So when extremely privileged players continue to do it, despite it's ineffectiveness it stinks of politics.

                                                                        Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                        Posted by HH on 9/6/2021, 13:34:15, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                        I don't think players taking the knee in this country should be deemed as a continuation of the BLM movement as an organisation.

                                                                        I agree re Zaha. He made some valid points and clearly explained his position.

                                                                          Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                          Posted by MetalHatter on 9/6/2021, 15:40:40, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                          Yes that's a fair point, maybe they shouldn't. Symbols are powerful things though and I don't blame people for being unhappy about it, and I don't think that silencing them is the answer.

                                                                      Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                      Posted by E1 on 9/6/2021, 13:05:16, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                      Semi finalists in a World Cup..

                                                                        Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                        Posted by hatterinnottingham on 9/6/2021, 13:19:28, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                        These boo-ers of the England team are muppets. The England team need all the help they can get. If people want to make some sort of statement against taking the knee - please do it some other time, thanks.

                                                                        Hint - don't do it at Luton games either - as the Hatters need all the help they can get as well.

                                                                          Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                          Posted by MetalHatter on 9/6/2021, 13:18:09, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                          Means nothing when you look at who we played and how we played throughout that tournament.

                                                                          Name one good performance?

                                                                          If you want to use tournament results as a justification then that's fine but will you be equally critical after we don't make it out of groups?

                                                                          We have gone backwards under Southgate.

                                                                            Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                            Posted by E1 on 9/6/2021, 15:12:36, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                            Means nothing to you.

                                                                              Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                              Posted by Music Critic on 9/6/2021, 13:41:17, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                              This argument about not playing/beating any quality - when Luton won the League Cup who the fukk did we play that had any genuine quality, apart from Arsenal?

                                                                              And when we beat Oxford, and had clinched a place in the Final that year, did us not playing 'quality' matter? Did it fukk

                                                                              Your statement of "if you want to use tournament results as a justification" is a joke, right? How the fukk else are you supposed to judge an international team and its manager, if it's not tournament results?

                                                                              I'm not even a huge follower of England but I hope they do well

                                                                                Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                                Posted by MetalHatter on 9/6/2021, 13:52:37, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                                Yeah I agree you need luck to win a tournament. We had luck, we didn't win because we had a crap manager.

                                                                                Which is also why just using one tournament result in isolation is ridiculous. I've watched every England game, I can identify the problems and they're getting bigger game by game. You're entitled to your opinion but you're a self-confessed non follower so, with all due respect, your opinion is based on feelings and not observable facts. It's quite cute though.

                                                                                  Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                                  Posted by Music Critic on 9/6/2021, 13:59:26, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                                  I'm not a great follower but I watch enough games to make a judgement and it's a massive improvement from Roy

                                                                                  You said you can't use tournaments to judge. You're backtracking nicely

                                                                                  Cute? Are you grooming me you fukking weirdo?

                                                                              Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                              Posted by HH on 9/6/2021, 13:23:40, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                              Gone backwards? Seriously?

                                                                              He was appointed a few months after we lost to Iceland in the second round. In the tournament before that we exited at the group stage.

                                                                                Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                                Posted by MetalHatter on 9/6/2021, 13:35:01, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                                Look at the team we had under Hodgson, we had Andy Carroll and Danny Welbeck upfront. We over achieved.

                                                                                Iceland was a terrible result.

                                                                                Southgate started well but has stagnated with some of the most talented footballers we've had in a long time. Time to move on.

                                                                                He also effectively forced Jamie Vardy - the best out and out striker since Shearer - into early retirement. By completely failing to utilise him all for the sake of his useless system.

                                                                                  Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                                  Posted by The Questioner on 9/6/2021, 23:01:29, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                                  We also had Harry Kane ....admittedly he was taking the corners . I went to all the England games ...have to say I thought Woy was clueless.

                                                                                    Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                                    Posted by HH on 9/6/2021, 13:39:20, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                                    We overachieved by being knocked out in the first round of the World Cup?

                                                                                    He also effectively forced Jamie Vardy - the best out and out striker since Shearer

                                                                                    Yeah, why doesn't he bench Kane for Jamie Vardy.

                                                                                      Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                                      Posted by MetalHatter on 9/6/2021, 13:48:20, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                                      No reason they can't play together is there? His system was at fault. Kane is actually more suited to playing deeper than running in behind - one of the reasons we lost to Croatia. Trust me we won't make it out of groups. Croatia and Czech Republic are more than capable of beating us.

                                                                                      Our midfield will cost us against the likes of Modric who will absolutely run riot against a 2 man midfield. We need at least 3 in there and preferably 2 more defensive. Rice and Ward-prowse is ideal with Grealish/Mount ahead of them.

                                                                                      Kane/Sancho/Foden/Grealish will all cause problems and I look forward to watching them. Just don't expect us to score from open play or concede less than we score.

                                                                                        Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                                        Posted by The Questioner on 9/6/2021, 22:58:47, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                                        How much do you want to bet we wonít make it out of the group ? Proceeds to SOLYD .... name the number ?

                                                                                          Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                                          Posted by The Questioner on 9/6/2021, 23:07:41, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                                          And you do know itís three to progress so to play fair I will give you 5:1 . Bet £100 and if you win I will donate £500.
                                                                                          Fair ?

                                                                                          Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                                          Posted by HH on 9/6/2021, 13:56:42, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                                          But then you're dropping Sterling / Grealish / Foden / Sancho etc to accommodate Vardy.

                                                                                          And I can't see a 4-4-2 being the answer.

                                                                                          It's all very well saying we lost to Croatia because of Kane not playing deeper but, if it wasn't for a miraculous save by their keeper, Kane also puts us 2-0 up on any other day.

                                                                                            Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                                            Posted by MetalHatter on 9/6/2021, 14:08:48, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                                            Sancho, Foden and Grealish weren't available then were they?

                                                                                            I wouldn't pick Vardy now as he's just about past it. At his peak he was more effective than Kane. In terms of pressure and creating space, and probably a better finisher too.

                                                                                              Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                                              Posted by Bored in Flitwick on 9/6/2021, 18:12:47, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                                              Knock on the ankle..Kate is done for

                                                                                                Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                                                Posted by HH on 9/6/2021, 14:14:20, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                                                So you're suggest had we picked Vardy we would have won the world cup?

                                                                                                  Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                                                  Posted by MetalHatter on 9/6/2021, 14:22:14, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                                                  Yes, I mean I can't say for certain.. but do I believe we'd have performed better and had a higher percentage chance of reaching the final - yes. If picked and played as a striker. Not in the wide position Southgate used him in.

                                                                                      Re: Missed Southgate debate

                                                                                      Posted by Bored in Flitwick on 9/6/2021, 13:20:44, in reply to "Re: Missed Southgate debate "

                                                                                      Backward an understatement..

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