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    Thread on Watford's finances

    Posted by Brko's Bicycle on 29/7/2020, 8:11:24

    https://mobile.twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/1288364354879070208

    Basically, they should be fine. They've got some saleable assets to add to this too (Deulofeu, Doucoure, Chalobah).

    Issue is more that once those better players leave then that doesn't leave them with much of a squad.

    Their problem is more likely to be like Huddersfield's (just being absolutely rubbish) rather than Sunderland or 2000s Leeds (financial collapse).

      Re: Thread on Watford's finances

      Posted by Maillot Jaune on 29/7/2020, 21:05:38, in reply to "Thread on Watford's finances"

      As I posted on another thread they are at the start of a slippery slope.
      They best go up next season (will be expected to as one of the 3 favorites along with Bournemouth and Norwich) otherwise the tick tock will start in terms of (a) how long the owners remain interested and (b) the reducing income with lower gates, TV, parachute payments etc ...
      I am just delighted that the gap in just a few short years from being 4 divisions apart has disappeared and we can have a real crack at them before we overtake them again.

        Re: Thread on Watford's finances

        Posted by The Outsider on 29/7/2020, 21:20:56, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

        I am just delighted that the gap in just a few short years from being 4 divisions apart has disappeared

        Have they ever been more than three leagues above us?

        Re: Thread on Watford's finances

        Posted by EastEnder on 29/7/2020, 10:55:30, in reply to "Thread on Watford's finances"

        Tbh the Birmingham's, Derby's and Wednesday's will probably struggle more with huge debts and possible points deductions.

        Next season in Championship in theory should be less challenging for both smaller clubs like us and also teams with parachute payments that have come down from Prem than last season was.

          Re: Thread on Watford's finances

          Posted by mmmm on 29/7/2020, 9:04:44, in reply to "Thread on Watford's finances"

          We're a bit blinkered when it comes to them down the road. The one quality they have had for decades is they are battlers. Admittedly when it comes to the 'big occasion' they are bottlers hence the empty trophy cabinet . I thin they will be fine in the Championship and most likely top 6. However they have two 'big occasion' games against us to handle on the journey. Isn't being a Hatter great at the moment !!!!!!!!

            Re: Thread on Watford's finances

            Posted by Ches Fordroad on 29/7/2020, 12:22:43, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

            Battlers? Seriously???

            They've had everything handed to them on a plate. Everytime the shit hits the fan, off they run to Fat Reg for another handout and if it goes wrong they go all helpless and "what else could we have done?". The main reason the Italians bought in was because they knew that they'd get zero opposition or dissent from the customers, particularly if they could give them a chance to see their favourite team once a season.

            If they'd had to deal with 1% of what's been thrown at us over the past 30 years, there wouldn't be a club there now.

              Re: Thread on Watford's finances

              Posted by Helter-Skelter Hatter on 29/7/2020, 14:48:21, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

              Bonus quiz point:

              Connection between this m/b site & 1%ers?

                Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                Posted by mmmm on 29/7/2020, 12:26:21, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                "Fat Reg" Haughty chuckles in Worcestershire.

                Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                Posted by Rob on 29/7/2020, 9:54:28, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                Nah, they’ve just been fortunate with funds when things look bleak. Luckily no Elton gigs will dig them out as and when the shit hits the fan for them.

                Battlers, we’re the battlers. They wouldn’t know how. Let’s see how much stomach they’ve really got next season and onwards.

                Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                Posted by Ches Fordroad on 29/7/2020, 9:04:43, in reply to "Thread on Watford's finances"

                It’s not a great time though to be having to raise funds from selling players.

                Another saving grace for them is that they shouldn’t be too badly hit by the reduced capacity issue as a lot of their leisure experience consumers will disappear so their gates would only have been about 40% of capacity.

                I guess much will depend on where they now stand in the pecking order .... oh what it must be to be reliant on another club’s owners

                  Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                  Posted by Mr T on 29/7/2020, 8:43:24, in reply to "Thread on Watford's finances"

                  When relegated Huddersfield had committed all their parachute monies for the 3 years to repaying debt (mostly to former owner Dean Hoyle) and so had no money to spend on the team. They only just managed to survive.

                  Sounds like Watford will be the same, so if they lose their better players - too expensive for Championship income - and get off to a slow start they could struggle to find funds to turn it around.

                    Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                    Posted by The Outsider on 29/7/2020, 8:20:23, in reply to "Thread on Watford's finances"

                    Haven’t read it in detail but Watford’s potential problems include several of their best paid players not having relegation clauses in their contracts and they have already borrowed money against next season’s PL TV money which will now have to be repaid from their parachute money.

                      Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                      Posted by The Orange Salopian on 29/7/2020, 12:19:49, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                      How on earth do clubs get in this kind of mess, they will receive around £90 Million prize money for finishing in the bottom 3 and then add to that the best part of £40 million in parachute payments

                        Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                        Posted by RADSB on 29/7/2020, 12:22:49, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                        The parachute payments can extend over 3 seasons - see chart on wiki here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_League_parachute_and_solidarity_payments

                          Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                          Posted by The Orange Salopian on 29/7/2020, 12:29:14, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                          It's unbelievable really, clubs are rewarded for failure. `norwich have done the right thing, not increased running costs significantly and will have a lot of money to build.

                            Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                            Posted by RADSB on 29/7/2020, 12:42:03, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                            I agree. It's too top heavy and the money should be distributed more evenly across the divisions and the grass roots - simplistic I know but that's my view. We'll see what reset there is in the coming months and years.

                        Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                        Posted by Brko's Bicycle on 29/7/2020, 8:48:28, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                        You would expect that those would be players they can sell on the whole though, even this year. Can imagine someone like Valencia coming in for Deulofeu, and though it pains me to say it Doucoure is class. Maybe £30m+ for the pair.

                        So long as we get our six points from them I'm not too bothered to be honest, but thought the thread was interesting as people do tend to overreact about the impact of relegation from the Prem.

                          Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                          Posted by RADSB on 29/7/2020, 10:03:28, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                          It's going to be tough for them to get it right. Some players will want to leave, others stay and suck up the wages. Doucore and Capoue are the key to their game. Their midfield would be mid table Championship without them. Their defence is shite as Pozzo's policy concentrates on getting young forwards cheap, improving them and selling on for a profit. Their value has gone down now. They broke the mould to get Delofeu (who must be a high earner) and Gray (£70k a week on a five year contract). They are the big problem I think. Plus there's Deeney (£100k a week) and his bad knee. Ho hum never mind.

                            Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                            Posted by Music Critic on 29/7/2020, 9:15:02, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                            ...interesting as people do tend to overreact about the impact of relegation from the Prem.

                            FWIW, when he is not occupied acting as Wigan fans' PR consultant, Kieran Maguire has said that this is the worst season to get relegated from the top flight (and the C'ship for that matter) due to closed doors impacting finances. I don't quite understand his argument, as surely parachute payments will ease the pain, but he's the man with the spreadsheets and not me

                              Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                              Posted by The Outsider on 29/7/2020, 10:54:02, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                              surely parachute payments will ease the pain

                              Not if they have already been spent and have got to be paid to Barclays as soon as they are received.

                                Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                                Posted by Music Critic on 29/7/2020, 11:28:25, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                                True

                                I wonder if their entire parachute payment will be needed to repay that loan?

                                Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                                Posted by Brko's Bicycle on 29/7/2020, 9:18:55, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                                Compared to other years then yeah that's obviously true for the Prem. But still not necessarily ruinous due to TV/Parachute cash.

                                But from Champ to League One this year is terrifying. I feel like a lot of people on here didn't quite appreciate how awful it would have been to go down this summer. I'm still not convinced that League One will happen at all.

                                  Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                                  Posted by The Outsider on 29/7/2020, 10:56:35, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                                  But still not necessarily ruinous due to TV/Parachute cash.

                                  Not if they have already been spent and have got to be paid to Barclays as soon as they are received.

                                    Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                                    Posted by The Outsider on 29/7/2020, 10:49:46, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                                    L1 and L2 are due to start on the same date as the Championship or are you saying that you think that that will change?

                                      Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                                      Posted by Brko's Bicycle on 29/7/2020, 10:54:33, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                                      If behind closed doors matches continue beyond October 1st (as I fear is likely) then I can't see how professional football at that level is viable. It barely is for the Championship but at least there's a bit of TV and transfer money around

                                      Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                                      Posted by Sexy Hatter on 29/7/2020, 9:45:01, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                                      If wage-reducing relegation clauses in players' contracts were mandatory then we wouldn't need parachute payments. Ruins the Championship, that does.

                                        Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                                        Posted by Music Critic on 29/7/2020, 9:30:45, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                                        But from Champ to League One this year is terrifying. I feel like a lot of people on here didn't quite appreciate how awful it would have been to go down this summer. I'm still not convinced that League One will happen at all.

                                        Exactly right. I was resigned to relegation pre-COVID as something that would have been a bit of an annoyance but knowing PC and NP were on the way, nothing more than a setback on the general upward trajectory we're on

                                        And then COVID happened and all of a sudden relegation was going to be a shit-show (in a footballing finance context). I was a shitting, nervous-wreck for that month. Totally unenjoyable because it was so important to stay up.

                                        Even with us being as well run as we are, I could see a fire sale of our high-earners, cheap recruits and youth being asked to plug the gap and another season of struggle. I was thinking that back-back promotions could be followed by back-back relegations. That might have been a bit TOO pessimistic but that was my concern

                                        I think staying up this year was more important than 1983 for financial reasons rather than footballing ones.

                                        This squad should be held right up there in the fans' esteem as one of the most important. 2 promotions (for some of them) and a vital escape from the drop

                                    Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                                    Posted by m on 29/7/2020, 8:50:28, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                                    Sarr would go for a few quid as well. From what I've seen he is blisteringly fast. strikers with pace are always in demand.

                                    Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                                    Posted by Music Critic on 29/7/2020, 8:24:12, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                                    And that borrowed money is, I think, having to go towards paying transfer fee money that they still owe

                                    Gut instinct tells me they'll be fine next season. If they don't go straight back up however...

                                      Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                                      Posted by City Gent on 29/7/2020, 8:52:59, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                                      Exactly. Next season they will be ok, and you'd assume they'd be top 10 most of the season with the squad they have, but if they fail to win promotion there'd have to be a fire sale next summer which could go one of two ways; OK (clear out dead wood high earners, get a fresh squad (dunno, WBA?)) or very badly (clear out good players, left with high earning dross (Stoke)).

                                        Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                                        Posted by Music Critic on 29/7/2020, 9:10:36, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                                        And there is another, admittedly less likely scenario too

                                        The Pozzo's sell the best players, then sell the club and run off with the transfer fees and parachute payments*

                                        That's an outside bet but I wouldn't put it past those shady fukkers




                                        *invest it in Udinese

                                          Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                                          Posted by City Gent on 29/7/2020, 9:20:58, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                                          If that happened, they'd just be bailed out again by that scumbag Ashcroft or some other lowlife. They've been incredibly lucky like that.

                                          I feel that the Pozzos will leach on for as long as they can, the lure of Premiership cash to finance the Italian operation is pretty strong. No surprise they divested Grenada, there is no money in Spanish football outside of Madrid and Barca, who I understand negotiate their own TV deals, so a provincial club like that would have been a drain.

                                            Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                                            Posted by Music Critic on 29/7/2020, 9:34:43, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                                            Yeah the tax evader would bail them out but no way would they be going back to the top flight for a very long time. Well, not purely on the strength of the tax cheat helping them out anyway.

                                            Yes, I think the Pozzos will hang around. For a year or so anyway. But, as I say, if after this next year they're still in the second flight, we might see a change

                                          Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                                          Posted by Brko's Bicycle on 29/7/2020, 8:54:06, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                                          Did Stoke have any good players to start with? 😅

                                            Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                                            Posted by Curious oranj on 29/7/2020, 9:41:58, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                                            Think all 3 sides relegated from the premier league will be favourites to go back up.

                                            Think genuinely championship is a weak league and the gap between champ and premier is getting bigger every year.

                                            The 4 teams in the playoffs would all struggle if promoted. Leeds will be ok but WBA bootom 5

                                              Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                                              Posted by City Gent on 29/7/2020, 8:59:54, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                                              Honestly, no idea. Same as WBA and Watford. I couldn't name more than two players at any of them. I have so little interest in other clubs' players.

                                              To be fair, I probably wouldn't know 90% of our players if I bumped into them at Tescos...

                                                Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                                                Posted by nev the bear on 29/7/2020, 10:06:36, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                                                don't they have their names on their backs then

                                                Re: Thread on Watford's finances

                                                Posted by Brko's Bicycle on 29/7/2020, 9:02:43, in reply to "Re: Thread on Watford's finances"

                                                All of our players look the same. I wouldn't be able to tell Shinnie, Isted, Berry and Bree apart in a police line up.

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