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    Parliament last night

    Posted by C on 10/9/2019, 10:50:26

    Like watching a chimps tea party, time to close it all down and turn it into a museum.

    Internet voting is the way forward.

      Re: Parliament last night

      Posted by homer on 10/9/2019, 11:13:34, in reply to "Parliament last night"

      A Laughing stock

        Re: Parliament last night

        Posted by crumpsall on 10/9/2019, 11:09:52, in reply to "Parliament last night"

        'time to close it all down' - maybe that's what the puppetmaster Cummings would like?

        And internet voting on what????

          Re: Parliament last night

          Posted by C on 10/9/2019, 11:16:06, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

          Just a bit fed up of it all crumps, like the way the Swiss have regular Internet voting, seems to work for them.

            Re: Parliament last night

            Posted by Joris Bohnson on 10/9/2019, 12:58:50, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

            The Swiss have loads of referendums. But very strict guidelines on vote boundaries and interpretations. The mess that the Leavers have got us into would never have happened in Switzerland

              Re: Parliament last night

              Posted by Laststraw on 10/9/2019, 14:27:50, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

              Many countries have regular referendums, but usually when a government calls for one they do so for change. Cameron wanted a referendum to keep the status Quo and came unstuck.

                Re: Parliament last night

                Posted by Captain Bleedin' Obvious on 10/9/2019, 14:32:50, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                I have never found the Quo particularly helpful in complex political situations.
                I don't know why we would.

                  Re: Parliament last night

                  Posted by laststraw on 10/9/2019, 17:52:16, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                  Not sure about that Francis Rossi for PM would be interesting, his election slogan "Whatever you want".

                    Re: Parliament last night

                    Posted by Captain Prolix on 11/9/2019, 8:55:32, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                    I kid you not that Angela Leadsom just dissed The Quo on Sky News.
                    I give up if we are relying on Rossi to sort it out.






                    Down down, deeper & down........

                      Re: Parliament last night

                      Posted by Nearly a Genius on 11/9/2019, 14:02:57, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                      There isn't a politician called Angela Leadsom.

                Re: Parliament last night

                Posted by Suffolk Punch on 10/9/2019, 13:45:03, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                The mess was of Cameron's making, and he was a remainer. The will of the people hasn't yet been carried out because the majority of MPs are remainders. So don't blame those who wanted to leave for the mess.

                  Re: Parliament last night

                  Posted by HH on 10/9/2019, 14:37:25, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                  What would a remainer have done differently?

                  The will of the people elected those MPs a year after the Brexit vote, remember?

                    Re: Parliament last night

                    Posted by Suffolk Punch on 10/9/2019, 16:13:09, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                    What I should have said was "don't just blame one side".

                    Unfortunately the more I think of the way Cameron fcuked the referendum up and then scampered, the angrier I become.

                      Re: Parliament last night

                      Posted by Newark_Hatter on 10/9/2019, 17:37:45, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                      He's a total c**t. Amazingly quiet atm. I wonder why . . . .

                        Re: Parliament last night

                        Posted by HH on 10/9/2019, 16:59:01, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                        Agreed

                          Re: Parliament last night

                          Posted by crumpsall on 10/9/2019, 16:44:29, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                          +1

                          His 'memoirs', soon to be published, will be sickening

                            Re: Parliament last night

                            Posted by Nearly a Genius on 10/9/2019, 16:48:35, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                            I spotted 'Boris -the making of a Prime Minister' in Sainsbury's this morning.

                              Re: Parliament last night

                              Posted by Suffolk Punch on 10/9/2019, 17:05:34, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                              I'm surprised you didn't give him a piece of your mind, M

                                Re: Parliament last night

                                Posted by Nearly a Genius on 10/9/2019, 17:07:39, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                                I think a person of mature years shouting abuse at a book will result in being carted off to the modern equivalent of Bedlam.

                                  Re: Parliament last night

                                  Posted by Suffolk Punch on 10/9/2019, 17:11:26, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                                  Oh, I thought you spotted Boris, presumably stocking up with non-perishable food and toilet paper.

                                    Re: Parliament last night

                                    Posted by Nearly a Genius on 10/9/2019, 17:23:16, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"


                                    Can't see him slumming it in Sainsbury's in Dunstable, tbh.
                                    He'd get Carrie to order from Harrod's online.

                                      Re: Parliament last night

                                      Posted by The Outsider on 10/9/2019, 17:31:33, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                                      To be fair, at the 2012 Paralympics when most of the "bigwigs" had chauffeur driven cars, Boris was queuing up with the rest of us for the train and chatting with people.

                            Re: Parliament last night

                            Posted by Joris Bohnson on 10/9/2019, 16:23:42, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                            Blame

                            A) The Leave campaign for cynically portraying Brexit as all things to all people to narrowly win a vote
                            B) Blame them for being completely unrealistic about the negotiations and the process. In fact going as far as to label anyone arguing along the lines of how this thing has actually panned out as being "Project Fear"
                            C) Blame them and the Govt for deciding after a narrow win not to reach out to all sides but plough on head first with a narrow interpretation of the result that only hardened opinion on all sides
                            D) Blame the government including the current PM for being utterly hopeless at negotiating on the UK's behalf. Mostly because they are more interested in negotiating with the Tory party and then continue to act surprised that the the EU are not the Tory party
                            E) Blame the government that when finally focussed on the realities of the situation they half abandoned that unrealistic and narrow focus leaving a situation where most people had reason to feel ignored
                            F) Blame them for arguing in a referendum for Parliamentary Sovereignty and then spending 3 years trying to ignore it or crying unfair when Parliament does its jobs
                            G) Blame them for plenty more

                            But please don't blame Parliament for acting like Parliament finally. Don't blame them especially for defending the interests of the majority of Britons Remain or Leave who are not Hard Brexiters

                              Re: Parliament last night

                              Posted by Suffolk Punch on 10/9/2019, 17:02:59, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                              From the one mindedness of your analysis, you mean "blame everyone and anyone who didn't want to remain shackled to the undemocratic corrupt self-serving EU", I think.

                              Fact 1. The EU has changed beyond all measures from the trading bloc we voted to remain part of in 1976, having been bounced in three years previously with no referendum.

                              Fact 2. There has been a growing anti EU feeling for years, to the point that asking the people in a referendum became the fair and proper thing to do.

                              Fact 3. David Cameron was so sure the country would vote to remain, he didn't think the referendum through, and made no provision for the divisiveness within the country that may ensue, or for the way in which the country would leave if that was the will of the people.

                              Fact 4. The campaign was a farce, with both sides telling whoppers.

                              Fact 5. The government spent £9 million on a leaflet delivered to every household, explaining fully the ramifications of leaving and the difference between deal/no deal.

                              Fact 6. The will of the people was 52/48 in favour of leaving, and Parliament voted to observe this and leave the EU.

                              Whatever has happened since has happened because the terms of the referendum were too loose. Although it has spoken, The country is bitterly divided.

                              It is ridiculous to blame one side of the argument for the mess we now find ourselves in. It is not ridiculous to blame Cameron for not thinking it through before allowing the referendum.

                                Re: Parliament last night

                                Posted by Joris Bohnson on 10/9/2019, 18:31:03, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                                You are right on 1 thing. I forgot firstly to blame Cameron. I also forgot to blame the years of national media is misinfotmation in reporting of Europe also.

                                None of this excuses the wilful lying by Leave.

                                Or the mismanagement of every part of Brexit by Cameron's successors.

                                Or take away the recent good work of our democratically elected MP's in represent majority of people who are anti No Deal

                                Or to remind pro Brexit people that we would have left in March had the likes of now PM Johnson voted for an actual Brexit.

                                  Re: Parliament last night

                                  Posted by The Outsider on 10/9/2019, 17:28:33, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                                  Fact 7 - your Fact 1 is wrong - the referendum was in 1975

                                    Re: Parliament last night

                                    Posted by Suffolk Punch on 10/9/2019, 18:21:57, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                                    Fact 8. You are a pedant.

                                    And it takes one to know one.

                        Re: Parliament last night

                        Posted by C on 10/9/2019, 13:05:02, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                        A stipulation that all laws/votes must pass with a 5% majority would've done the trick.

                        Also, you could change your mind and vote again when you've got all the information, without making an arse out of yourself in public - like we are now.

                        Re: Parliament last night

                        Posted by Nearly a Genius on 10/9/2019, 11:28:50, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                        Is that for representatives, or for referenda?
                        Either way I don't think their Parliament uses internet voting.

                          Re: Parliament last night

                          Posted by crumpsall on 10/9/2019, 11:30:57, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                          This is informative NaG...

                          Switzerland's voting system is unique among modern democratic nations in that Switzerland practices direct democracy in parallel with representative democracy, which is why the Swiss system is known as a semi-direct democracy.[1] Direct democracy allows any citizen to challenge any law approved by the parliament or, at any time, propose a modification of the federal Constitution. In addition, in most cantons all votes are cast using paper ballots that are manually counted. At the federal level, voting can be organised for:
                          •Elections (election of the Federal Assembly)
                          •Mandatory referendums (votation on a modification of the constitution made by the Federal Assembly)
                          •Optional referendums (referendum on a law accepted by the Federal Assembly and that collected 50,000 signatures of opponents)
                          •Federal popular initiatives (votation on a modification of the constitution made by citizens and that collected 100,000 signatures of supporters)

                          Approximately four times a year, voting occurs over various issues; these include both initiatives and referendums, where policies are directly voted on by people, and elections, where the populace votes for officials. Federal, cantonal and municipal issues are polled simultaneously, and a majority of votes are cast by mail. Between January 1995 and June 2005, Swiss citizens voted 31 times, to answer 103 federal questions, besides many more cantonal and municipal questions (during the same period, French citizens participated in only two referendums).[2]

                          The most frequent themes are social issues (e.g. welfare, healthcare, and drug policy), public infrastructure (e.g. public transport and construction projects) and environmental issues (e.g. environment and nature protection), economics, public finances (including taxes), immigration, asylum, and education, but also about culture and media, state system, foreign affairs, and military issues – again on any of the three political levels![3]

                        Re: Parliament last night

                        Posted by crumpsall on 10/9/2019, 11:22:47, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                        I'm fed up of Parliament being made into a pantomime too, but far more concerned that we now seem to be under direct rule from Dominic Cummings, not any parliamentarian at all.

                        Interestingly, when Corbyn tried to make PMQT into a more civilised and 'grown up' affair, he was mocked by many and it soon reverted to type. Johnson's hideously embarrassing performance at his one and only PMQT was a new low though.

                          Re: Parliament last night

                          Posted by wolfie on 10/9/2019, 13:34:16, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                          Corbyn was mocked for being ineffectual. Other parliamentarians in debates and especially in committees show that MP's can be pretty forensic and effective without the Lower 6th Public school Debating Team antics that often go on.

                          Corbyn is too often woolly and ineffectual, though surprisingly good last week

                            Re: Parliament last night

                            Posted by crumpsall on 10/9/2019, 13:41:27, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                            That's a good summary Wolfster.

                            Though last week he was of course up against, on the day, a complete clown.

                          Re: Parliament last night

                          Posted by Ted on 10/9/2019, 11:20:19, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                          And they're not in the EU. And they don't have hard borders.

                            Re: Parliament last night

                            Posted by Mr T on 10/9/2019, 12:55:17, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                            The relations between Switzerland and the European Union (EU) are framed by a series of bilateral treaties whereby the Swiss Confederation has adopted various provisions of European Union law in order to participate in the Union's single market, without joining as a member state.

                              Re: Parliament last night

                              Posted by C on 10/9/2019, 13:07:56, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                              Major scraped it through parliament with a tiny majority in 1992, had we gone down a similar avenue to the Swiss, we would've avoided all this shite.

                              Re: Parliament last night

                              Posted by crumpsall on 10/9/2019, 11:25:03, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                              And they are the fifth 'least corrupt' country out of 180, which makes them pretty damn corrupt!

                                Whoops - half a post there!

                                Posted by crumpsall on 10/9/2019, 11:36:28, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                                And they are the fifth 'least corrupt' country out of 180. The same survey also shows that political parties are considered the most corrupt institution in Switzerland - and their banks are rated as the most corrupt in the world, which makes them pretty damn corrupt!

                          Re: Parliament last night

                          Posted by Wytonboathatter on 10/9/2019, 11:08:17, in reply to "Parliament last night"

                          Reminded me of Six form students playing politicians, pathetic.

                            Re: Parliament last night

                            Posted by Captain Bleedin' Obvious on 10/9/2019, 10:53:16, in reply to "Parliament last night"

                            The Bercow love-in was skin-crawling.

                              Re: Parliament last night

                              Posted by Pedant on 10/9/2019, 11:08:21, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                              I swear Mogg tripped Bercow up as he made his way past the Tory front benches

                                Re: Parliament last night

                                Posted by Nearly a Genius on 10/9/2019, 11:27:00, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                                How childish.

                                Re: Parliament last night

                                Posted by Starh on 10/9/2019, 11:01:02, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                                Good theatre though .

                                  Re: Parliament last night

                                  Posted by Captain Bleedin' Obvious on 10/9/2019, 11:03:44, in reply to "Re: Parliament last night"

                                  Pantomime dame is a good call.

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