The L.C. Smith Collectors Association

The L.C. Smith Collectors Association
[ The L.C. Smith Collectors Association ]

Buddy guns?

Posted by Brian Sloan on April 23, 2025, 5:03 am

I've been putting thought into errors in the LC Smith ledgers. I don't have enough, hardly any, information to go on but... I'm wandering about a case I seen awhile back to where a high grade Smith was recorded in the ledger as a low grade Smith. It seems to me like that would be a difficult mistake to make. Put me to thinking that maybe it was built for a buddy, recorded as a lower grade, and was sold at a significantly lower price. If all the grade mistakes was recorded as lower grades it would seem to prove this. If this turned out to be the case it would add a new group of guns to collecting. Buddy guns. It would also sell more research letters to find them.
Thoughts?

Re: Buddy guns?

Posted by Bill Bianchetto on April 23, 2025, 5:05 pm, in reply to "Buddy guns?"

Interesting theory. I have a Specialty grade that if I remember, DR.Jim told me the serial # comes up as a Fulton box lock.

Re: Buddy guns?

Posted by Tom Garver on April 23, 2025, 6:16 pm, in reply to "Buddy guns?"

Brian, this all began happening with Hunter Arms from January,1890. A fellow member owns serial number 30036 and I own serial number 30041. Both guns are recorded as "XXX" but are stamped #3 on the receiver lockplate inletting. Both have Quality 3 style lockplate engraving. The strange thing is that the Quality 3 supposedly wasn't available until 1894. Just 2 examples and there are many, many more

Re: Buddy guns?

Posted by David Williamson on April 26, 2025, 3:54 pm, in reply to "Buddy guns?"

Here is my thought, of the nearly half million guns made by Hunter Arms Co. and such, guns were recorded in different ledgers and were not recorded sequentially as to month or even in some cases years. The more that was written on the gun by either the inspector, department manager and then forwarded to whomever wrote this down, which could have been a secretary that really didn't know much about guns and put the serial number down on the wrong line, etc. is any ones guess. There are examples of higher grade guns that were listed as lower grades and one such gun was one of the Hunter brothers.

I don't know much about "buddy guns' but I do know that when workers finished what they were working on they could work on their own gun projects which Hunter allowed, so if you were good at parts fitting, and wanted a stock checkered you would barter for that, some with engraving. Many of these guns were parts guns and possibly some were not even serial numbered.. I was told a story by the late Rich Byer who knew some of the workers and he told me that he had seen a few other 28 gauge guns that were not serial numbered. The records show only one made, serial number 100 that was made for a special person that was an engineer with Hunter Arms, but in casting a receiver you don't make just one same with the barrels.

Re: Buddy guns?

Posted by Steve Arnett on May 1, 2025, 6:45 pm, in reply to "Re: Buddy guns?"

David, I am doubtful that these guns have cast frames. They are much more likely to be forgings. Casting would have expedited machining, as more details can be engineered into the tooling. But simply case hardening a casting that large wouldn't last. Just my $0.02 worth

Re: Buddy guns?

Posted by David Williamson on May 2, 2025, 6:43 am, in reply to "Re: Buddy guns?"

Forging is the correct term. I should edit before I submit.

Re: Buddy guns?

Posted by Ken Descovich on May 2, 2025, 6:54 pm, in reply to "Buddy guns?"

I do own what might be considered a buddy gun, it is in the records as an 12 ga A1 but is engraved more like an A2, It was made for Harry Duguid who happened to make bicycle seats at his Saddlery shop that he owned. He also is listed in a syracuse news paper as a trap shooter with one of the Hunter brothers.

Re: Buddy guns?

Posted by Brian Sloan on May 2, 2025, 7:17 pm, in reply to "Re: Buddy guns?"

I wander if he made seats for the hunter bros bicycles. Post pics of your A1 if you will. If anyone knows where I can find a hunters brothers bicycle let me know.

Hunter Wheels & Duguid

Posted by Drew Hause on May 2, 2025, 7:27 pm, in reply to "Re: Buddy guns?"

https://members.boardhost.com/lcsmith/msg/1632694775.html

Re: Buddy guns?

Posted by Ken Descovich on May 2, 2025, 9:05 pm, in reply to "Buddy guns?"

Unfortunitly my phone and computer has problems posting pictures I can email them to someone that can post them. I bought this gun that was missing barrels and wood and just had to resurrect it to is new found glory, at least what I thought it may have looked like originally.

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