The L.C. Smith Collectors Association

The L.C. Smith Collectors Association
[ The L.C. Smith Collectors Association ]

Liven up this website

Posted by Ken Descovich on October 19, 2024, 1:54 pm

Some of us are retired stay at home and would like to learn more about our hobby "L. C. Smith shotguns" what can we do to liven up this forum? I know theres got to be someone that can add information about the monogram shotguns that Tom is asking about and there are certainly more early transitional guns that I asked about. Let's get the ball rolling.

Re: Liven up this website

Posted by David Williamson on October 20, 2024, 10:39 am, in reply to "Liven up this website"

Ken, I agree with your statement.
What would you like to know about the Transition period guns. They would all be hammer guns and I have been studying them for many years. So feel free to ask anything about them and I hope I will be able to answer you or anyone else that finds interest in these early guns.

Re: Liven up this website

Posted by Ken Descovich on October 20, 2024, 5:21 pm, in reply to "Re: Liven up this website"

Hi David thanks for the response I guess I am referring to the transitional period of Hunter Arms Company ownership from Syracuse N.Y. and Fulton N.Y. (both hammer and hammerless) I asked for help adding photos of a quality 4 that was listed as a XX per Jim's response and Tom helped me out. My efforts were to spark interest in others to show what they knew or what they owned to add pictures and spark a conversation. I have a copy of your list of early Baker and L. C. Smith shotgun serial numbers and there configuration, I did not see my gun in the list #32068. I do not know what your parameters are for being on your list (only if documented as being called out by grade or quality in the records)

I also have some early 2 barrel Baker/ L. C. Smith hammer guns I picked up from Darryl Halquist that have a different forend release than I have ever seen before on the 200 serial number period 1877 time frame.

The only way we are going to expand our knowledge is by sharing our information, I don't see it in any books that I am aware of.
Let's get the ball rolling.
Ken
I really need to get this picture thing worked out, I used to be able to add pictures but for some reason cannot any longer this includes my cell phone my i-pad and my computer, nothing works.

Posting images

Posted by LCSCA on October 20, 2024, 5:55 pm, in reply to "Re: Liven up this website"
Edited by board administrator October 20, 2024, 5:56 pm

We were having problems with the image posting service but it is now working.
This is still correct
https://members.boardhost.com/lcsmith/msg/1592749458.top

First press 'Ctrl' F5 to refresh your computer.

When you click on the 'upload image' icon at the bottom this will pop up

Click on 'Don't show me this next time' then 'Agree'

Then this will pop up

Click on 'browse from your computer' then find the image on your computer/device and click once to highlight then double click to copy and a code will appear

Re: Posting images

Posted by Ken Descovich on October 20, 2024, 6:02 pm, in reply to "Posting images"

I just tried that and now nothing shows up when I click on the upload image link

Re: Liven up this website

Posted by David Williamson on October 20, 2024, 6:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Liven up this website"

Ken there are many questions that need to be addressed but unfortunately there is no one surviving that can help. It is stated that Hunter Arms Co. started in 1890 when in fact it started in 1889. Syracuse records are lost or someone is holding on to them.
If you had or anyone has read Houchins' book he states that the Syracuse hammer guns ended at serial number 25470 but I have serial number 26397 c. 1889 that has L.C. Smith Maker on the barrels and has the squared lug of the Syracuse guns. I do have other hammer guns with the squared lug but was not able to see the top of the barrels (auction guns) to verify maker. I have serial numbers up to when Hunter Arms Gun Co. started making hammer guns and that started below serial number 26469 that now has the rounded lug but still no makers name on barrels. These serial numbers go all the way to 29992 with no makers name on barrels. Starting in 1890 is when the records for Hunter Arms started at 30,000. In 1891, 1892 and 1893 there were on hammer guns made and I wonder if that was for re-tooling. Also Syracuse was only making hammer guns in 1889 with serial numbers 25,000 and 26,000 with no guns found with 24,000 serial numbers. Serial numbers 28,000 and 29,000 have the rounded lug again with no makers name and I believe some of the squared lug hammer guns were sent to Fulton to be assembled with machinery, tools and unfinished guns.

As to your serial number, you are correct, I do not have it, the serial number would make it a Hunter Arms gun made in Fulton. The bottom of the barrels on some of the higher graded guns has XX or XXX and again no one seems to know what that means although some speculate it could be the barrel grade of steel or Damascus they were made of.

As to pictures, I used to use Photobucket but then they wanted money so I switched to Imgur which was great but now they must have changed something because I cannot edit the pictures I download into it. I can send them full resolution but who wants a picture that takes up the whole screen.

Re: Posting images

Posted by LCSCA on October 20, 2024, 6:23 pm, in reply to "Re: Posting images"

Have you tried to clearing cookies and cache?
https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/32050?hl=en&co=GENIE.Platform%3DDesktop

XX and XXX shotguns

Posted by Jim Stubbendieck on October 20, 2024, 6:49 pm, in reply to "Re: Liven up this website"

We do not know what XX or XXX means. However, on the first page of at least one ledger, the following is recorded:

"XXX Left without grade or made into a different grade."

What do you think this means?

Re: Liven up this website

Posted by Ken Descovich on October 20, 2024, 7:08 pm, in reply to "Liven up this website"

Thank you for that I was able to get my computer to work with pictures now working on my android phone.
Ant way here is a picture of my A2 I bought from Daryl, look at the barrel markings not your normal markings, has anyone have an idea why?
Thanks again,
Ken

Re: XX and XXX shotguns

Posted by Ken Descovich on October 20, 2024, 7:15 pm, in reply to "XX and XXX shotguns"

Hi Jim,
This is getting exciting all these responses, I can only speculate as i do not have a XXX gun, possibly the XX marked guns have had the markings on the frame added like in my case a 4, possibly the XXX are not marked on the frames.

Re: Liven up this website

Posted by David Williamson on October 21, 2024, 5:49 am, in reply to "Re: Liven up this website"

Ken, very nice. that is the first gun I have seen with Made by and Oswego Co. engraved on it. I guess the engraver had a good day.

Re: Liven up this website

Posted by Ken Descovich on October 21, 2024, 11:34 am, in reply to "Re: Liven up this website"

Made to order by the Hunter Arms Co. Fulton N.Y.
is the norm for these higher grade guns, I would think there is a purpose for a change in verbiage like maybe a shotgun for display or ? any ideas? I know we may never know for sure. This shotgun is signed by Glahn S.C. on the upper tang.

Re: Liven up this website

Posted by David Williamson on October 21, 2024, 1:52 pm, in reply to "Re: Liven up this website"

Ken, the Hunter Arms Co. for anything above a No.3 would be special ordered, unless it has ejectors or a Hunter One Trigger. In some of the early catalogs on the last page was an order form that you filled out stating what you wanted as to LOP, DAH, DAC. If you filled in the length of pull and ordered the HOT they automatically made the stock to your length whether the trigger was in the middle or rear position. The also stated if you wanted a particular pattern at the yardage you preferred they asked what powder you were using and the shot size. On the top floor they would pattern it to your specifications and send you the results.
Your are very fortunate to have the Glahn's name on it. SC means scribed (signed).
The Spangler brothers first worked for L.C. in Syracuse and later went to Fulton when Syracuse was sold. Glahn and his 3 sons also went to Fulton. Not much info on how long the Spangler Bros. stayed on. In his obituary, Joseph Glahn went to Fulton in 1893 as head engraver and died in 1902.
Here is the conundrum, your gun according to the Year of Manufacture states 1891. Who is right? Researching is fun until things like this happen.

Also does your A2 have the stepped lock plates? That is the first style and there were 4 different styles. In my opinion the first style A2 was the nicest of any of the Fulton L.C. Smith's.

Re: Liven up this website

Posted by Ken Descovich on October 21, 2024, 2:24 pm, in reply to "Re: Liven up this website"

The A2 is serial number 1965 I do not have a letter on the gun and I do not remember why I don't as I usually do get a letter on my higher grade guns. I do believe the gun was made latter than the 1891 date (you might be thinking of my quality 4 gun #32068).
This gun by serial number is shown as an A2 12ga with 30" barrels but does not have a shipping date in Houchins book page 529, this is why I think it may have been a display gun.
I appreciate your information and was thrilled to be able to purchase the gun.
I appreciate your information

Re: Liven up this website

Posted by Brian Sloan on October 21, 2024, 3:54 pm, in reply to "Re: Liven up this website"

Very interesting. I like hearing about anything LC Smith. A little mystery adds to the interest. I have a Grade 3 in 16ga that has ruffed grouse on it. It's not in very good condition but I've never seen one.

Re: Liven up this website

Posted by Trevor Rice on October 24, 2024, 2:08 am, in reply to "Liven up this website"

I have a bunch of photos of my grandpas “odd ball” restorations I could share. Many unique guns

Re: Liven up this website

Posted by Ken Descovich on October 24, 2024, 4:55 am, in reply to "Re: Liven up this website"

I'm not sure how the owners of the guns will take it, but if you have there permission to post pictures I would love to see them.

Re: Liven up this website

Posted by Trevor Rice on October 24, 2024, 11:00 am, in reply to "Re: Liven up this website"

Well Ken there aren’t any names attached to them and likely the guns have changed hands, who knows?

I specifically have a couple that I would like more info on

Re: Liven up this website

Posted by David Williamson on October 24, 2024, 3:02 pm, in reply to "Re: Liven up this website"

Trevor post them.

Re: Liven up this website

Posted by Tom Garver on October 24, 2024, 5:49 pm, in reply to "Re: Liven up this website"

Ken, here is my latest project that I've put together from 4 early Hunter Arms guns. The stocked action, SN 36488, was purchased at an auction in CA. The barrels on the frame, SN 31842, was in a box of barrels in an auction in Ephrata, PA and fit to the frame.The browned barrels, SN 32080, was purchased on Ebay and will be fit to the frame. The forend wood and metal came from SN 31886. Credit for case coloring and barrels on the frame goes to Earl Zimmerman in Penn Yan, NY

Re: Liven up this website

Posted by Trevor Rice on October 25, 2024, 12:44 am, in reply to "Re: Liven up this website"

I wanted to go back and discuss the 8 gauge guns.

After talking to David he identified there may be more than 3 in existence.

Anyway here’s a photo from Bucks archives. I can only assume he did the restoration.

Re: Liven up this website

Posted by Brian Sloan on October 25, 2024, 7:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Liven up this website"

I'm all about 8ga Smiths!

Re: Liven up this website

Posted by Craig Thompson on October 28, 2024, 1:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Liven up this website"

It might help if you go to a more user friendly format . Look at the Parker or Fox forums ! The format used on both of them is A LOT more user friendly .

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