The L.C. Smith Collectors Association

The L.C. Smith Collectors Association
[ The L.C. Smith Collectors Association ]

LC 20 gauge top lever..STUCK ??

Posted by Jerry VanHorn on December 3, 2022, 9:18 am
Edited by board administrator December 3, 2022, 9:34 am

Just putting my 20 ejector back together. Everything OK till I got to top lever..Can't move it..Obviously triggerplate and locks are off. Safety rod works. What am I doing wrong ?..thanks..j
and..should the lock pieces be up or down when I put locks back?

L C Smith 20 gauge top lever..STUCK

Posted by Jent P Mitchell III on December 3, 2022, 11:16 am, in reply to "LC 20 gauge top lever..STUCK ??"

Are the barrels mounted on the frame ??? If so then push the top lever towards the LOCKED position harder and hold the barrels firmly in the locked on the frame position ... now push the top lever towards the OPEN position ..... this might help .... posted by Jent.

Re: L C Smith 20 gauge top lever..STUCK

Posted by jerry vanHorn on December 3, 2022, 3:23 pm, in reply to "L C Smith 20 gauge top lever..STUCK "

Barrel are not on frame. Locks and triggerguard off..Just read about the problem with the triggerguard screw alignment too. Might be time for my favorite gunsmith..

Re: L C Smith 20 gauge top lever..STUCK

Posted by Dan Wildhaber on December 3, 2022, 3:49 pm, in reply to "Re: L C Smith 20 gauge top lever..STUCK "

You don't mention open or closed?
If open is it the toplever hold open trip(bolt trip)?
You probably already depressed it.

Re: L C Smith 20 gauge top lever..STUCK

Posted by jerry vanHorn on December 4, 2022, 7:43 am, in reply to "Re: L C Smith 20 gauge top lever..STUCK "

Top lever is centered.Barrels off..locks off..j..

Re: L C Smith 20 gauge top lever..STUCK

Posted by Dan Wildhaber on December 4, 2022, 10:11 am, in reply to "Re: L C Smith 20 gauge top lever..STUCK "

Are all the parts original?
You had it completely disassembled?
You lubricated the bolt, etc, as you reinstalled them?
I have had the bolt get bound up before, especially if it wasn't original to the gun.
My only thought would be to go backwards, disassembling until the point it frees up.
At the point you're at it should be pretty easy to remove the coupler and see what that tells you.

Check coupler to rotary bolt

Posted by David Williamson on December 5, 2022, 6:35 am, in reply to "Re: L C Smith 20 gauge top lever..STUCK "

I'll go along with what Dan stated, if you had the receiver apart including the rotary bolt there is a good chance you didn't put it back in the right position.
Attached to the top lever is the coupler which has a pin on the end, that pin fits into a hole in the rotary bolt (you can see the hole in the side of the rotary bolt) that lets the coupler rotate when the top lever is moved. If not in that hole you will bind it up and the top lever will not move.

Re: Check coupler to rotary bolt

Posted by jerry vanHorn on December 5, 2022, 7:36 am, in reply to "Check coupler to rotary bolt"

Thanks guys.. I only had the trigger plate and the locks removed.

Re: Check coupler to rotary bolt

Posted by Dan Wildhaber on December 5, 2022, 9:19 am, in reply to "Re: Check coupler to rotary bolt"

Hard to troubleshoot something from a thousand miles away.
Is there anything movement at all in the toplever?
Apply some moderate thumb pressure to the toplever back and forth and look closely. Is it transferring force to the bolt?

The two scenarios I can imagine are that:

A) The bolt has somehow become stuck. (The machining inside the receiver isn't always the best.)
Maybe try pushing the bolt back or forth with a screwdriver while applying pressure on the toplever.

B). The trigger plate is the bottom bushing for the toplever axle so the main spring will push everything out of alignment until it's reassembled. Relieve the spring pressure so the axle is in proper alignment by removing the spring or wedging it out of the way.
See if that fixes it.

Re: Check coupler to rotary bolt

Posted by Drew Hause on December 5, 2022, 10:15 am, in reply to "Check coupler to rotary bolt"

Not the best image, but the coupler and top lever should look like this

Might Be A Broken Top Lever Spring

Posted by John Liles on December 5, 2022, 4:23 pm, in reply to "Re: Check coupler to rotary bolt"

One of our Elsie team shooters asked me to repair a 16 ga hammer gun that needed a new hammer spring. Easy peazy and I took the gun to a local range to give her a sea trial before returning the gun. Gun went bang every time until half way through the 5-Stand when the top lever locked up in the closed position. If I'd have applied any more pressure the top lever might have broken. Wouldn't budge even a little bit.
Back at the bench I spent 45 minutes trying everything I could imagine to open the gun, no luck. Since the lever was in the closed position, no way to access the upper receiver-to-trigger-plate screw normally accessed with the top lever pushed to the right. I ended up cutting off the top lever just ahead of where the hidden screw was with a Dremel wheel, which allowed access to disassemble the receiver. In the slot below the trigger plate where the top lever resides, was a broken spring with the long leg displaced and completely passing the vertical leg of the top lever. I replaced the spring with a new one, and then installed a spare top lever I had on hand, and the gun appears to be back in the game.
Sounds like that might be something you haven't explored.
Good luck.

Re: Might Be A Broken Top Lever Spring

Posted by Tom Garver on December 5, 2022, 6:33 pm, in reply to "Might Be A Broken Top Lever Spring"

Jerry, I may be reading this whole thing wrong but with everything being in the correct place that everyone has mentioned the top lever is not going to move until the entire gun is reassembled. The top lever needs to be in the hole in the trigger assembly and the barrels must be on and closed for the top lever to move. Currently the main spring has the top lever pushed to the far right and won't allow you to move it. Tom

Re: LC 20 gauge top lever..STUCK ??

Posted by Zachary Hopkins on December 5, 2022, 9:27 pm, in reply to "LC 20 gauge top lever..STUCK ??"

I have had this happen many times in both worn and not so worn guns when reassembled. There is a small rounded nipple at the end of the coupler that sets in the rotary bolt and binds in the machined portion of the rotary bolt in which it rides and rotates. I would completely disassemble this and reassemble it making sure the coupler isn't upside down as well as loosely assemble the coupler to the top lever making sure it is somewhat loose as for the nipple not bind in the rotary bolt. More than likely when assembled or messed with during cleaning it has not fell fully in the worn area in which it rides in the rotary bolt causing it to bind. It takes very little force with metal on metal friction to bind one up. I have also had to tap with a plastic end hammer to move the top lever which unfreezes it but do not recommend this.

Re: LC 20 gauge top lever..STUCK ??

Posted by jerry vanHorn on December 6, 2022, 7:56 am, in reply to "Re: LC 20 gauge top lever..STUCK ??"

Thanks to all who helped . Rather than make a costly mistake..I sent everything to my 'smith yesterday. This is an early Field 20..30"/ejectors in wonderful condition. I wanted to keep it that way.!I learned a lot from the replies..mainly.."Don't do it again !"...Merry Christmas to all..j..

Re: Might Be A Broken Top Lever Spring

Posted by John Liles on December 6, 2022, 12:42 pm, in reply to "Re: Might Be A Broken Top Lever Spring"

Moot at this point Tom, but OP indicated that the top lever was centered and stuck, not stuck and to the right.

Re: Might Be A Broken Top Lever Spring

Posted by Tom Garver on December 6, 2022, 3:36 pm, in reply to "Re: Might Be A Broken Top Lever Spring"

Point taken, John. As Dan said, we're trying to diagnose a problem from 1000 miles away and flying blind. I assumed the top lever was in contact with the main spring which would hold it to the right. Just everyone trying to help a guy in a bind

Re: Might Be A Broken Top Lever Spring

Posted by John Liles on December 6, 2022, 4:44 pm, in reply to "Re: Might Be A Broken Top Lever Spring"

You bet Tom, that’s what we do! Gotta keep these old guns in the game!

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