The L.C. Smith Collectors Association

The L.C. Smith Collectors Association
[ The L.C. Smith Collectors Association ]

WWII WILDFOWL Discovered

Posted by Mike Dean on December 7, 2021, 11:01 pm

A bit of irony in this find on today, December 7th. I stopped in at my local gun store here in Virginia and on the shelf was a very fine L. C. Smith. It stood out from the rest of shotguns...mostly for the long elegant barrels that seemed to tower above the other shotguns in the rack. Upon initial examination it was a plain Field Grade in very good condition. But, to my surprise when I turned it over I saw the WILDFOWL stamping on the lug. I asked the owner if we could take a closer look and when we broke the shotgun down I could clearly see the initials RLB, the flaming bomb and crossed cannons markings. The barrels were 32 inches in length, mirror bright, and DID NOT have the "chambers 3 inches" marking or reinforced barrel loop. Not having my LCSmith books with me and being out on the road; I did the next best thing to confirm what I believed to be a special piece of WWII history...I emailed Jim Stubbendieck from my phone...and this is where I want to say how fortunate we are to be able to reach out to resources within the LCSCA to help new collectors like me find answers. Within a short amount of time Jim was able to confirm this was indeed a shotgun that was shipped to the Rochester Ordnance District. All looked good and that is when I noticed the forearm ser# did not match the barrels and receiver. I sent the serial# on the forearm back to Jim and he was also able to confirm that the forearm was for an identical shotgun shipped to the Rochester Ordnance District. Mystery Solved..

The bottom line for me is that I was able find a great piece of history and that I am deeply appreciative of the help club members who were able to provide me such precise information on short notice. We are fortunate to have these types of resources available to us all..

My request for the research letter is filled out and waiting for the postman...

Re: WWII WILDFOWL Discovered

Posted by Stanley Hackett on December 8, 2021, 11:39 am, in reply to "WWII WILDFOWL Discovered"
Edited by board administrator December 8, 2021, 12:43 pm

I also have a 12-gauge military-marked Field Grade WILDFOWL with a mismatched forend that bears a serial number within the range Brophy mentioned. I have always assumed that the mix-up occurred in the armory during routine cleaning. The gun has 2 1/2 inch chambers (by measurement, not marked) and does not have the reinforced barrel loop. Your observation about getting quick assistance from Jim Stubbendieck is spot-on!

what are the chances that you have each .......

Posted by Jent P Mitchell III on December 8, 2021, 7:07 pm, in reply to "Re: WWII WILDFOWL Discovered"

So what are the chances that you have each others fore ends ?????..... What are your numbers ???? Jent.

Re: what are the chances that you have each .......

Posted by Mike Dean on December 8, 2021, 7:31 pm, in reply to "what are the chances that you have each ......."

Jent…my thoughts exactly 😂😂…
My receiver is 197628 and the forearm is 199734. I was thinking of posting on the Forum to see if anyone has shotgun #199734. What would be the chance!

Re: what are the chances that you have each .......

Posted by Stanley Hackett on December 8, 2021, 8:15 pm, in reply to "Re: what are the chances that you have each ......."
Edited by board administrator December 9, 2021, 6:20 am

I wish! Unfortunately, my receiver and barrels are 198621, the forend is 198011.

Re: what are the chances that you have each .......

Posted by David Williamson on December 9, 2021, 7:17 am, in reply to "Re: what are the chances that you have each ......."

From what I have read and heard, this is a common problem with Ordinance guns. After a day of shooting everyone sat around a big table and took the guns apart and laid them on the table to clean them. Putting them back together it seemed to be a common thing to just grab a for-end and put it on the wrong gun. I guess no one looked at serial numbers to be sure it was the right gun.

Re: what are the chances that you have each .......

Posted by Stanley Hackett on December 9, 2021, 7:27 am, in reply to "Re: what are the chances that you have each ......."
Edited by board administrator December 9, 2021, 7:54 am

The chambers in my gun are 2 3/4, not 2 1/2.

Re: WWII WILDFOWL Discovered

Posted by Denver Dillard on December 9, 2021, 12:44 pm, in reply to "WWII WILDFOWL Discovered"

Joining in the inventory. I have Rochester Wild Fowl ser.# 199729 with 32" barrels and 2 3/4" chambers. Barrels not reinforced. All markings plus a right side lock plate stamp of V.A.2116. Does this increase the number of Rochester Wild Fowl guns or are these among the 8 in the Production Records?

Re: WWII WILDFOWL Discovered

Posted by Mike Dean on December 9, 2021, 2:23 pm, in reply to "Re: WWII WILDFOWL Discovered"

Denver, I am glad you joined in this new conversation. I was just reading your post from May 2021. I do know from Jim Stubbendieck that neither of my two Wild Fowls that were sent to the Rochester Ordnance District were recorded as Wild Fowl in the ledger. With that being said I am very much interested to learn if you discovered what the V.A. 2116 markings indicated on your WF ser# 199729? The reason I ask is that I have found another Wild Fowl shotgun with V.A. 2119 stamped onto the lock plate. This Wild Fowl ser# is RE198789. It is marked Wild Fowl on the lug with all the appropriate war time markings, plus the reinforced loop, 32 inch barrels, ejectors, and surprise...all the numbers match... unlike the forearm on my WF #197628. Please let me know if you have discovered the origins of the V.A. markings.

Thanks
Mike
dmdean4@yahoo.com

Re: WWII WILDFOWL Discovered

Posted by Denver Dillard on December 9, 2021, 2:53 pm, in reply to "Re: WWII WILDFOWL Discovered"

I have not discovered an answer but speculate that it is a unit or Depot number. A Rochester gun #199986 just sold at Rock Island for $8000 plus premium and tax! On the right lock plate is stamped ILL6120. One can guess that it was sent to a post or unit in Illinois. Mine may designate Virginia or Vermont or something consistent with that designation. My number is V.A. 2116, suggesting two words. My Research Letter also reports that it was not Wild Fowl in the records. Thus, the number grows.

V.A. marked guns

Posted by Drew Hause on December 9, 2021, 3:01 pm, in reply to "Re: WWII WILDFOWL Discovered"

V.A. MAY be the Manassas Armory, Virginia Army National Guard

A non-LRWF FW Field

A Hunter Special

Re: V.A. marked guns

Posted by Mike Dean on December 9, 2021, 3:25 pm, in reply to "V.A. marked guns"
Edited by board administrator December 9, 2021, 5:50 pm

Drew,

Another piece of the puzzle and a added bonus that this old Virginia native can bring this piece of history back to its home state!!

I am hopefully posting the photo of the Wild Fowl receiver with the VA 2119 markings!!

Re: WWII WILDFOWL Discovered

Posted by Mike Dean on December 9, 2021, 8:23 pm, in reply to "Re: WWII WILDFOWL Discovered"

Denver, with our VA markings so close together I would imagine they came from the same location!!. I wonder if there would be any military liaison with our Virginia military system to make that inquiry.

Re: WWII WILDFOWL Discovered

Posted by Mike Dean on December 10, 2021, 10:05 am, in reply to "Re: WWII WILDFOWL Discovered"

Is there some evidence or is anecdotal to suggest that the V.A. markings may mean the Virginia National Guard or the Manassas Armory? Is there any prior documentation from other firearms that would suggest that V.A. marked firearms may have came from these sources?

The fact that we have two Wild Fowl marked Smiths that are only three V.A. numbers apart hints at a single source from where they may have came from…

Re: WWII WILDFOWL Discovered

Posted by Drew Hause on December 10, 2021, 11:13 am, in reply to "Re: WWII WILDFOWL Discovered"

I found a list of Army National Guard Armories during WWII Mike. Another possibility is Villisca National Guard Armory in Iowa, and no doubt others.

This is a non-LRWF Field marked "ILL" which could indicate the Illinois State Armory in Springfield or the Rock Island Arsenal.

Re: WWII WILDFOWL Discovered

Posted by Ken Descovich on December 10, 2021, 1:08 pm, in reply to "Re: WWII WILDFOWL Discovered"

Wow that is a special one serial number 200,000

Re: WWII WILDFOWL Discovered

Posted by Mike Dean on December 10, 2021, 9:23 pm, in reply to "Re: WWII WILDFOWL Discovered"

I can see that some of the questions I am asking have been around for quite some time. I have been looking at some past responses and found some more leads from a thread "Ordnance Marked Smiths" from 2013. Thanks again for the wealth of archived information... it is quite the education!!

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