The L.C. Smith Collectors Association

The L.C. Smith Collectors Association
[ The L.C. Smith Collectors Association ]

A2 forend

Posted by Don Bullock on March 8, 2021, 12:05 pm

hoping someone may be interested:
i recently bought a gr.4 gun at auction and when i got the gun, i saw right away the for end did not match the gr. 4. the wood and the clam shell release were from an A2. the original condition of the 2 parts is amazing. at least 95% and never refinished.
i checked the Houchin book and the ser.no. was not listed. also called Dr.Jim and found he did not have a listing for that no. either so i called the Cody museum and they confirmed the gun was made and shipped in 1892. i think its unlikely a gun of that quality has been discarded, so someone has the gun without a beautiful original forearm.
if any of our members know of the existence this gun please pass along the information. i'm willing to part with the pieces because i know how important it would be to the owner.

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Re: A2 forend

Posted by Tom Archer on March 8, 2021, 12:41 pm, in reply to "A2 forend"

Don, I hope the original gun still exists and that you do find the current owner; BUT given what I know of the research Jim has done with the records, I find it almost impossible to believe that Cody has a record of this gun and Jim couldn't find it in his complete copy of same? Please help me understand.
Thanks, Tom

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Re: A2 forend

Posted by Jim Stubbendieck on March 8, 2021, 1:38 pm, in reply to "A2 forend"

Don:

Would you provide the serial number again? Will the number be for the A-2 and not the No. 4?

Thanks,

Jim

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Re: A2 forend

Posted by Don Bullock on March 8, 2021, 4:47 pm, in reply to "Re: A2 forend"

The museum explained to me that there are 2 overlaping sets of production records in those early guns. The SN is 583.
The gun was sent back a couple of years later for additional work which explains the 2 above the ser. no. on the right side of the butt end of the forend wood, indicating a possible second set of barrels.
The name Gerlach was also shown in the record indicating the possible owner.

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Re: A2 forend

Posted by Don Bullock on March 8, 2021, 4:59 pm, in reply to "Re: A2 forend"

I believe Jim you did tell me there was the name Gerlach or something similar in your find.

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Re: A2 forend

Posted by Jim Stubbendieck on March 8, 2021, 5:45 pm, in reply to "Re: A2 forend"

Don:

The LCSCA and the Cody Firearms Museum have the same records.

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Re: A2 forend

Posted by Don Morgan on March 9, 2021, 9:54 am, in reply to "Re: A2 forend"

To Don Bullock you might try researching the archives,2 years ago I purchased a set of A2 barrels (needing a set of barrels for a pigeon grade)while researching the archives for information on A2’s I found a 10 year old post from someone looking for A2 barrels. The contact number was still good they were the original barrels for his gun they were damaged but repairable so now there back where they should be.

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Re: A2 forend

Posted by Don Bullock on March 9, 2021, 12:38 pm, in reply to "Re: A2 forend"

l just don't get it. the head of the research dept. at the museum and 2 other people in that dept. came up with the same result.
I know Jim and he probably knows more about this process than anyone alive.
Don, I like your idea. If you have the time would you mind giving me a call to discuss a little further. 307-272-8375

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Re: A2 forend

Posted by Stanley Hackett on March 9, 2021, 1:14 pm, in reply to "A2 forend"

For clarification, does your Grade 4 receiver and barrels have the serial number 583? Does the A-2 forend also have the serial number 583? Is the forend metal and/or wood marked A-2? Thank you.

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Re: A2 forend

Posted by Tom Archer on March 9, 2021, 6:16 pm, in reply to "Re: A2 forend"

Although it's difficult for us collectors to conceive, many high grade Smith guns, and other makes have been destroyed and/or parted out. Years ago I found the A-2 lock plates below in an SC gun shop; the serial number is 1692. It's in the Brophy recap; and the odd thing is that it is one of two A-2 guns with the same serial number, so we know that one of those guns did not survive. The shop owner said the gun had belonged to an SC politician and had been accidentally run over and destroyed; he'd no idea as to the remainder of the gun. Believe it or not, an A-3 was recently sold on GB for parts, or as a project. Seems the frame to this gun had been destroyed by a police department; perhaps by law deeming the gun as stolen, confiscated, or maybe thru a gun buy back program? But is was REAL sad to see a gun of that quality destroyed. I once owned a highly engraved opening lever serial numbered to an A-2, as well as an ejector fore end escutcheon to another A-2; and a Type I ejector iron from another very high grade Smith. You'll recall that Brophy recorded the Marlin made Crown Grade serial numbers; and if you study that list you'll see ONE serial number of a Crown Grade recorded as being shipped without auto-ejectors, gun #14781. I once owned the manual extractor fore iron to this gun; so what happened to the gun itself? No idea, but I've always hoped it went back to Marlin for the addition of auto ejectors. And if we study the early Type I ejector guns, we find that many were returned later to be fitted with the Type II ejector mechanism; and I once owned an A-1 that received that upgrade. We may never know why a Type I ejector A-2 iron is on a Grade 4, but it could be as simple as this. The owner of the Grade 4 Type I ejector gun needed a replacement fore end and found on salvaged from an A-2 that had been upgraded to the Type II ejector system.

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Re: A2 forend

Posted by Tom Archer on March 9, 2021, 6:21 pm, in reply to "Re: A2 forend"

Forgot the #1692 lock plate pic

gradient crossword

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Re: A2 forend

Posted by Ken Descovich on March 9, 2021, 7:16 pm, in reply to "Re: A2 forend"

I know what you mean Tom I own a set of barrels and a forend (wood only) to two different Deluxe guns. The splinter forend is beautiful, I can only imagine that the owner wanted a beavertail forend.

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Re: A2 forend

Posted by Jerry Andrews on March 10, 2021, 5:48 am, in reply to "A2 forend"

I believe Robert Barnett owns the gun.

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Re: A2 forend

Posted by Don Bullock on March 10, 2021, 10:17 am, in reply to "Re: A2 forend"

Stan: The wood is marked A2 583.
The release is marked 583.
The rest of the gun has a diff. #.

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Re: A2 forend

Posted by Don Bullock on March 10, 2021, 10:30 am, in reply to "Re: A2 forend"

Jerry: do you have a contact # for Robert Barnett?
He would certainly want this piece. It belongs with the gun.
Give me a call if you like
307-272-8375
Don

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Re: A2 forend

Posted by Stanley Hackett on March 10, 2021, 11:32 am, in reply to "Re: A2 forend"

Thanks Don.

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Re: A2 forend

Posted by Don Bullock on March 11, 2021, 2:01 pm, in reply to "Re: A2 forend"

Does anyone know Robert Barnett?

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Re: A2 forend

Posted by Ken Descovich on March 11, 2021, 3:58 pm, in reply to "Re: A2 forend"

There is a Robert Barnett wanting to buy a 16 ga set of barrels on our members board, don't know if this is the right one.

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Re: A2 forend

Posted by Don Bullock on March 12, 2021, 11:43 am, in reply to "Re: A2 forend"

thanks ken; where can i find his listing

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Re: A2 forend

Posted by Ken Descovich on March 12, 2021, 12:26 pm, in reply to "Re: A2 forend"

Don you will have to get on the members only gun sales forum as he does not give out any contact info other that answering on that board. I appreciate your attempt to contact him.
Ken

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Re: A2 forend

Posted by Don Bullock on March 12, 2021, 8:09 pm, in reply to "Re: A2 forend"

Did get through but lead turned out to be dead end.
The gun does exist! Any other ideas will be appreciated. Don

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Re: A2 forend

Posted by Drew Hause on March 13, 2021, 8:14 am, in reply to "A2 forend"

Don, could you please start using standard punctuation for both your name and posts?
Thank you for your cooperation.

I'm going to lock this long thread now.

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[ The L.C. Smith Collectors Association ]