The L.C. Smith Collectors Association

The L.C. Smith Collectors Association
[ The L.C. Smith Collectors Association ]

How does production numbers / background impact Value ?

Posted by Ken Hobday on March 7, 2021, 1:59 pm

I have been picking up LC Smith shotguns for a few years and was looking at moving some from my collection. As I go thru these guns a few that I have belonged to significant shooters from the past and several are limited production variants
For instance a 16 ga Trap grade .. gun is original around 70% condition so value as a trap grade is one thing but being only 263 were made how much does that increase the value ? Another Trap Grade 12ga belonged to a state champion Ohio trap shooter I researched him and found he was inducted into the Ohio trap shooting hall of fame , I have pictures of him with the gun and a research letter that shows it was ordered by him How much impact on value does this have ?
Very curious what people’s opinions are on this matter as I have several other brand SxS, that have belonged to other historical character's . Thanks for all your input

Re: How does production numbers / background impact Value ?

Posted by Tom Archer on March 7, 2021, 3:44 pm, in reply to "How does production numbers / background impact Value ?"

I'll bite, I'll contribute my two-cents to the discussion as that's about all my opinions are worth. Provenance is a great thing to have, as folks are always curious to know the history of their gun; but my experience has been that, unless the previous owner was somewhat of an acclaimed celebrity like Annie Oakley, Teddy Roosevelt, etc. provenance doesn't generate much additional value. With your Trap Grades, if one were an example of a high-conditioned and very rare steel barreled 10-bore ejector, or the extremely rare .410 bore you'd have collectors beating down your door; but the 12, 16, and 20-bores seem to be judged by original condition (and by barrel length with 16's and 20's, as small bores with 32" seem to be hot items). A good way to approach selling a gun for premium value might be to feature the gun and the story of its provenance in a published article such as the LC Smith Journal, as making a gun "known" always generates interest; and interest usually equates to higher values.

Re: How does production numbers / background impact Value ?

Posted by Ken Hobday on March 7, 2021, 4:30 pm, in reply to "Re: How does production numbers / background impact Value ?"

Tom
So my take away from your post is configuration or provenience adds value
So what is the production Magic number produced in your opinion to move the value , my self I believe that my 16ga is a rare piece with only 263 made , am I wrong in this assumption ?

Re: How does production numbers / background impact Value ?

Posted by Tom Archer on March 7, 2021, 7:05 pm, in reply to "How does production numbers / background impact Value ?"

Ken
Hopefully others will soon chime in, but my comments represented my personal thoughts and observations thru experience, which is my understanding of your original question. In no way were they intended to disparage your gun, or collection. Based on my research I don't classify a gun that is one-of-263 as "rare"; I would classify that gun as "uncommon and difficult to find". A truly rare gun would be a one-off and there are several low-grade Smith guns that meet that parameter; the one Damascus barreled 20-bore, the one OE Grade 14-bore, the one Field Grade with 34" barrels, the one OO Grade 28-bore, and there are many other such as the one Olympic Grade 20-bore. These are genuine rarities and are the guns collectors drool over and pay big bucks for. Clearly there are high-grade Smith guns that bring premiums; but virtually all of the highest grade Smith guns are scarce (some very), and they fetch premiums because of their beauty as well as their rarity. I personally don't view a Trap Grade Smith gun outside of "new in the box" examples, a .410, or the previously described 10-bore ejector guns as rare; but again that's my personal opinion. Prices for good guns seem to be up as we enter the Biden era of gun restrictions, so now may be a good time to sell; but the only way to know for sure is to put your guns on the market. I wish you the best, and good luck. Tom

Re: How does production numbers / background impact Value ?

Posted by craig larter on March 8, 2021, 5:44 am, in reply to "Re: How does production numbers / background impact Value ?"

Tom has very sage advise/comments. I have sold two Parkers that had provenance to famous shooters Guy Lovelace and Ed Keller. Both were DH guns in 80% condition. Maybe great provenance helped close the deal but had no impact on price. Most collector/shooters of a 70% gun give a dam about provenance in my opinion.

Re: How does production numbers / background impact Value ?

Posted by Bill Murphy on March 8, 2021, 6:02 am, in reply to "Re: How does production numbers / background impact Value ?"

Craig, I enjoyed your "Keller" article. I also own a Keller gun, a 30" eight gauge DH Parker. It is also a rare gun in that is is one of one 30" hammerless eight gauge Parker of any grade. I have too much fun shooting it to worry about its value.

Re: How does production numbers / background impact Value ?

Posted by Ken Hobday on March 8, 2021, 8:14 am, in reply to "Re: How does production numbers / background impact Value ?"

Tom
Farthest thing from my mind was that you were criticizing my personnel guns but was wanting an idea of what was that “magic “ number , I know cars if under a hundred were produced it is considered “ special” I have several “one of “ doubles that I know to the right person would demand a premium . I appreciate your comments and it gives me an idea what people in the Community think .
As far as “ holy grail “ guns wow I think we all comb garage sales, estate sales hoping to find that unfound one of a kind treasure stuck under grandmas bed in a mutton leg case.
That’s what is so appealing to collecting “elsies” they are out there
To me an 8ga anything is a “holy grail” gun

Re: How does production numbers / background impact Value ?

Posted by Ken Hobday on March 8, 2021, 8:19 am, in reply to "Re: How does production numbers / background impact Value ?"

Craig
Excellent comment , I think the gun sells on its own accord unless it belonged to a significant historical figure , with a few exceptions I’m sure
Thanks for your comment

Re: How does production numbers / background impact Value ?

Posted by Tom Archer on March 8, 2021, 8:52 am, in reply to "Re: How does production numbers / background impact Value ?"

Thanks Ken, and you are certainly correct in that there are a number of odd and special Smith guns still awaiting discovery. Some are one-off guns, but we also know that some examples such as the "R" framed 20-bores and the "C" framed guns were made in multiple copies, yet none have surfaced to my knowledge. Discovering, and attempting to locate these oddities have always served to make the collecting of Smith guns very interesting to me personally; and are the driving forces that keep this hobby exciting.

Re: How does production numbers / background impact Value ?

Posted by Steve Arnett on March 9, 2021, 8:05 am, in reply to "Re: How does production numbers / background impact Value ?"

I have a No. 1 16 ga. from 1904 that is one of 57 in the configuration I have. It has 30" Damascus barrels, and automatic ejectors. It also has a straight grip stock and double triggers.
I don not expect this gun to have particularly high value, as it is not a high original condition gun. The big drivers of value (for better or worse) are original condition, gauge, barrel length, options. I don't think there is a magic production number that will trump these factors to advance the value of a particular gun. Also, my $0.02 worth.

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