The L.C. Smith Collectors Association

The L.C. Smith Collectors Association
[ The L.C. Smith Collectors Association ]

Burst Barrel Analysis

Posted by Drew Hause on November 12, 2020, 3:05 pm

Roy has given permission to post his images and summarize my opinion regarding his barrel burst.

While pheasant hunting, and having taken several shots, the left barrel of his 12g 1916 Trap Grade burst, and barrels and ribs separated.
He was using older Winchester-Western Super-X, 2 3/4", 1 1/4 oz. 7 1/2 shot. The shot immediately before the burst seemed normal in sound and recoil.
It was not thought to be possible that mud, etc. could have entered the barrel.

Sectioning of a remaining shell from the box revealed fiber wads; possibly dating the shells to the 1980s

The barrel has an about 11" split, starting about 8" from the muzzle. The barrels separated as did both the top and bottom ribs, the bottom rib being bent into a U

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THERE IS NO RING BULGE at the muzzle

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There is however extensive rusting of every soldered surface; barrel and rib

Re: Burst Barrel Analysis

Posted by Drew Hause on November 12, 2020, 3:13 pm, in reply to "Burst Barrel Analysis"

1. The absence of a ring bulge argues strongly against an obstruction.
2. The color and uniformity of the barrels suggests previous re-blueing with hot caustic salts.
3. The extensive rusting suggests that the silver solder between barrels and ribs dissolved during the blueing.
4. The long split without a bulge suggests inadequate wall thickness; possibly from honing when the barrels were blued. Measurement of the wall thicknesses of the barrel remains would confirm.

SO 1st the thin left barrel burst, and 2nd the non-fused barrels and ribs separated.

Feel free to contribute other thoughts. I most certainly could be mistaken.

Replacement barrel

Posted by Drew Hause on November 12, 2020, 3:23 pm, in reply to "Burst Barrel Analysis"

Roy is seeking a graded non-ejector barrel for a Regular frame 12g, which uses a J spring snap on FE. His forend fortunately was not damaged.

Re: Replacement barrel

Posted by Tom Archer on November 12, 2020, 3:50 pm, in reply to "Replacement barrel"

I don't know what could have happened but your analysis seems sound so far; and I'm very thankful that Roy didn't suffer a severe hand injury! About 50 years ago (hard to believe that long ago now), my brother in law managed to blow the barrels in my pristine 1919 vintage FWE 12-bore Field Grade. In that instance he was horsing around and unknowingly managed to obstruct the left tube about 8" from the breech. The next shot vaporized the flesh between his thumb and index finger and left his thumb pointing towards his nose. The barrel split much like in the photo above, but with an obvious bulge at the obstruction. Barrel ribs did not separate but the explosion bent the tubes sharply left and downward. Forend wood was splintered, but the iron itself was not damaged. Wish I'd taken pics, but my focus at the time was getting my B-I-L to the emergency room. Kept the barrels for years before sending them to Buck Hamlin, and I've no idea what may have become of them since. The only good thing for my B-I-L was that his injury kept him out of Vietnam.

Re: Replacement barrel

Posted by Drew Hause on November 13, 2020, 10:01 am, in reply to "Re: Replacement barrel"

Roy has been offered a graded Reg. frame ejector barrel with FE.
Other than the usual fitting, would there be any issues with his frame in replacing his Reg. frame non-ejector barrels?

Re: Replacement barrel

Posted by Mark Robson on November 13, 2020, 10:20 am, in reply to "Re: Replacement barrel"

Probably not a big deal depending how the rib extension width and the locking lug recess fits. Hot bluing a set of barrels should be a capital offense.

Re: Replacement barrel

Posted by Tom Archer on November 13, 2020, 12:00 pm, in reply to "Re: Replacement barrel"

It may be very simple to convert his gun to an ejector model. There'd be no modifications to the frame itself, so if the replacement barrels fit onto the frame correctly, the only other issue would be the fore iron fitment which might be as simple as adjusting the length of the "J" spring. Buck Hamlin would be a great resource to contact regarding this matter.

The Western Super X Mark 5 Load

Posted by Drew Hause on November 17, 2020, 2:51 pm, in reply to "Burst Barrel Analysis"

Re: The Western Super X Mark 5 Load

Posted by Charlie Brooks on November 17, 2020, 7:00 pm, in reply to "The Western Super X Mark 5 Load"

In the early 60's Winchester-Western came out with the Mark 5s.They were a paper shell loaded with fiber wads and a plastic wrap around the shot.A little later on they were using a plastic shell with the same insides.Around 1968 the true AA case came out with a AA all plastic wad like can be bought today.I'm not sure how long Winchester may have used some fiber wads in their production line.I do know that the cheaper line of shells they made for the discount stores had fiber wads in them for years.I write this from memory and shooting these shells and reloading them.I could be off a year or two,here or there.I still think this burst could have been a pressure related thing with deteriated powder at the bottom of it.The other issues of rust may all had had their part in the burst also.It would be interesting to see the results of a pressure test on these shells,if any unfired shells still exist yet.Charlie.

Re: The Western Super X Mark 5 Load

Posted by Drew Hause on November 30, 2020, 6:19 am, in reply to "The Western Super X Mark 5 Load"

Courtesy of Dave Noreen

The Western white boxes with the red Super-X first appear in the 1972 catalog.

Re: The Western Super X Mark 5 Load

Posted by Dave Noreen on November 30, 2020, 10:44 am, in reply to "Re: The Western Super X Mark 5 Load"

The Olins introduced their Super-Seal Cup Wads in their Winchester and Western shotgun shells by the early 1950s --

Even though their AAs had plastic one-piece wads from their introduction in 1965, their hunting loads stuck with the Super-Seal Cup wad and fiber wads into the early 1980s. From the 1979 catalog --

Re: The Western Super X Mark 5 Load

Posted by David Williamson on November 30, 2020, 1:17 pm, in reply to "Re: The Western Super X Mark 5 Load"

David it is always nice to see all of your ads from yesteryear on here and the DGBBS, thanks.

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