The L.C. Smith Collectors Association

The L.C. Smith Collectors Association
[ The L.C. Smith Collectors Association ]

LC Smith 12 ga. What is max Pressure?

Posted by David Bradshaw on May 18, 2020, 5:54 pm

I have a 12 ga that was made in 1932. Trying to come up with a reload that keeps pressure down since my previous powder is no longer ava. Wanted to know what the max pressure that folks seem to agree upon for these wonderful old guns. Also if anyone has a recipe they like I'll take that also.
Thanks
David

Re: LC Smith 12 ga. What is max Pressure?

Posted by Bill Schodlatz on May 18, 2020, 7:28 pm, in reply to "LC Smith 12 ga. What is max Pressure?"

I like 17 grains of red dot in a PAPER federal, 209 primer, 1 oz of hard shot and a so wad, or a 1 oz AA wad also works. Shoots great and smells like a shell did in the dark past.

bill

Re: LC Smith 12 ga. What is max Pressure?

Posted by Drew Hause on May 18, 2020, 8:06 pm, in reply to "LC Smith 12 ga. What is max Pressure?"
Edited by board administrator May 18, 2020, 8:21 pm

A Hunter Arms Co. Pressure Curve dated 6-10-1929 is in the records of the McCracken Research Library, Buffalo Bill Center of the West
http://library.centerofthewest.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/WRAC/id/8149/rec/107

Proof pressures were measured by crushers (LUP - Lead Units Pressure) and modern piezoelectric transducer measurements would be 10 – 14% higher

12g 3” = 17,250 psi or about 19,000, which is about the modern SAAMI proof load standard
12g 2 3/4” = 14,200 psi or about 16,000 psi

The modern SAAMI max. 12g service pressure is 11,500 psi, which Western's Super-X 1 1/4 oz. "Field" equaled.
The 3” Super-X “Record” with 1 3/8 oz. was about 13,000 psi.

It is of course reasonable to protect the wood with lower recoil loads, or have the head of the stock glasbedded.

There is more information in the FAQs "Shotshells and Shooting"

Re: LC Smith 12 ga. What is max Pressure?

Posted by Johnj Brownell on May 19, 2020, 5:01 pm, in reply to "LC Smith 12 ga. What is max Pressure?"

David, I have been using this load for many years in all my vintage 12 ga. guns, even damascus barrels. Using a Remington field hull, the green ones you find everywhere, I use a Winchester 209 primer, 16.5 gns. of Reddot or 17 gns. of 700X, winchester WAA12L wad or equivalent, Claybuster CB-0178-12 and 7/8 oz. of #7 1/2 or #8 shot. This load patterns beautifully and is light on recoil. I think you'll like it!

Re: LC Smith 12 ga. What is max Pressure?

Posted by David Bradshaw on May 19, 2020, 8:23 pm, in reply to "LC Smith 12 ga. What is max Pressure?"

Thank you all for your response. It has helped a lot and thanks for your recipes. I'll give them a try. Only thing i forgot is that mine is 2 1/2 " chambers.
Any changes to recipes??
Still understanding what if any differences in 2 1/2 vs 2 3/4

Re: LC Smith 12 ga. What is max Pressure?

Posted by Will Favre on May 20, 2020, 5:33 am, in reply to "Re: LC Smith 12 ga. What is max Pressure?"

David,

You should remeasure your chambers. Shooting a 2-1/2" shell in. 2-3/4" chamber is a good way to reduce pressure, l don't believe LCS produced 2-1/2 chambers in 12 gauge unless it was special ordered.

Wll

Re: LC Smith 12 ga. What is max Pressure?

Posted by Jason Stratton on May 20, 2020, 1:14 pm, in reply to "Re: LC Smith 12 ga. What is max Pressure?"
Edited by board administrator May 20, 2020, 1:17 pm

Drew,

The chart you reference states that these are Black Powder Proof charges, with grains of 3F powder listed for each proof load.

Were these proof loads for Damascus barrels, or how does BP proofing compare to smokeless powder proofing and pressure curves?

Re: LC Smith 12 ga. What is max Pressure?

Posted by Drew Hause on May 20, 2020, 1:30 pm, in reply to "Re: LC Smith 12 ga. What is max Pressure?"

The chart is from 1929 Jason; well past the damascus barrel era. Pressure is pressure, whether generated by Black or Smokeless powder.

This is a pressure-distance curve published in 1933 from "Smokeless Shotgun Powders: Their Development, Composition and Ballistic Characteristics" by Wallace H Coxe; E.I. du Pont de Nemours & Co.; for a 3 Dr. Eq. 1 1/4 oz. load.

Lots more information, and more pressure curves here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F2sQuPm05IE4VWYYnCkvuXmYEzQoWd_SQgaAfUOZEFU/preview

Re: LC Smith 12 ga. What is max Pressure?

Posted by bob jones on May 20, 2020, 3:00 pm, in reply to "LC Smith 12 ga. What is max Pressure?"

i reload mine at 1100 to 1200 p.s.i.

Re: LC Smith 12 ga. What is max Pressure?

Posted by Carl Erickson on May 20, 2020, 5:35 pm, in reply to "Re: LC Smith 12 ga. What is max Pressure?"

Ballistic Products has a nice pamphlet of reduced charge loads.

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