The L.C. Smith Collectors Association

The L.C. Smith Collectors Association
[ The L.C. Smith Collectors Association ]

Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun

Posted by Steve Wesbrook on March 4, 2020, 3:54 pm

Last year I acquired and have since reconditioned a Model F Type II 10-gauge, which was manufactured in 1901. This shotgun, serial number 89971, has three-rod fine Damascus-steel barrels, a nicely figured English walnut stock, and 22-point checkering. See attached pictures.

It does not appear to be consistent with any of the three styles of the New Model F listed in the Hunter Arms Co. catalogs of the period. The least expensive style at $20 had fluid-steel (Royal) barrels; the most expensive at $25 had basic two-rod Damascus-steel barrels; all had straight-grained wood.
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I suspect that this is a special order gun. I would appreciate any insight on this. Also, if anyone has a similar gun, please consider contacting me to discuss at 703-625-4830.

Re: Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun

Posted by Drew Hause on March 4, 2020, 4:52 pm, in reply to "Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun"

Nicely done Steve.
Here is another 1901 F with a similar pattern; 4 Iron "Very Fine" Damascus which should be on A and B grade hammerguns. The patterns are a bit messy compared to yours however. Did you refinish the barrels?

So was Hunter Arms using up higher grade damascus tubes in the transition to fluid steel?
When "rough forged" or in-the-white the pattern is very difficult to discern so maybe the error was when the tubes were paired in Belgium?

Re: Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun

Posted by Drew Hause on March 4, 2020, 4:55 pm, in reply to "Re: Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun"

Do your barrels have a 'H' stamp?

Re: Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun

Posted by Tom Garver on March 4, 2020, 5:45 pm, in reply to "Re: Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun"

Dr. Drew, what does the "H" stamp represent?

Re: Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun

Posted by Tom Garver on March 4, 2020, 6:28 pm, in reply to "Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun"

Steve, my curiosity got the best of me so I checked my hammer guns. I found 2 from 1903, one a 12 gauge with chain damascus and another a 16 gauge with 3 rod fine damascus. The third is a 12 gauge with 4 rod fine damascus from about 1905. Research letters on these guns do not indicate if they were special order. The only "H" that I could find on any hammer gun was my 16 gauge Gladiator from 1919 and that is stamped below the serial number on the water table. Is your 10 gauge stamped FF on the water table?

'H'

Posted by Drew Hause on March 4, 2020, 6:57 pm, in reply to "Re: Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun"

Unfortunately I don't know Tom. It is not uncommon to find both 'H.R.F.' of Heuse-Riga Fils and 'HHR' of Henri Heuse-Riga on Smith damascus tubes. The 'H' may be all that was left after finishing the barrels.

Different barrels on hammer guns

Posted by David Williamson on March 4, 2020, 10:17 pm, in reply to "Re: Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun"

Most all hammer guns from 1889 to 1932 were F grades including 10 gauges. There were some special grades such as Ideal, Trap, Specialty, 1 Eagle Grade 16 gauge, E Grade, and Some Gladiator grades made for Sears Roebuck and Co. The FF designation I believe was used only in catalogs for Hunter Arms to show there was 10 gauge guns available and was most likely on the order sheet given to the various stores that sold guns. I have read that no orders were taken from Hunter Arms Co. from individuals and that all orders were through the various stores.
After 1918 hammer guns were stamped with an H and the first serial number was H201(from Records) and now they all had Royal Steel barrels. They did away with the F grade because now the serial numbers were mixed and the hammer guns were given the prefix H. Catalogs from this period listed HH for 10 gauge but there were none made after 1918.

My theory on the different grades of barrels is that in the "white" all barrels look the same and I believe they were put in the wrong bins. I do have one serial number of one barrel having Best Damascus and the other Chain Damascus. When assembled and given serial numbers then blued and etched, the pattern then comes out. Or a very slim possibility that they could have been Special Ordered.
I have 3 Chain Damascus barrels in over 600 serial numbers. I also have 3 that started out as an F grade and one wound up as an Ideal Grade with Star Damascus barrels and another wound up as a Specialty Grade and sold again both times through a Julia Auction, the last was a Trap grade that in the records state it was an F grade sold through RIA.

Re: Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun

Posted by Steve Wesbrook on March 11, 2020, 4:37 pm, in reply to "Re: Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun"

Drew, thank you. It makes a lot of sense that Hunter Arms would have used up the higher grade tubes in their inventory when it made the shift.

I looked at the barrels on my gun more carefully, and they are 4-iron. As such, they would have been very expensive, costing Hunter Arms far more than the $25 they charged for a New Model F Damascus-barreled gun. If the company did not take special orders, I wonder if they had some special arrangement with the gun stores and distributors to sell these transition guns at a higher price?

To your question, I did recondition the barrels. Steve

Re: Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun

Posted by Steve Wesbrook on March 11, 2020, 5:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun"

Dew, in response to your question whether the barrels of my 1901 10-gauge have an 'H' stamped on them, they have both an 'H' and a 'D' separately stamped on the tubes.

I have awaiting reconditioning a 1912 12-gauge Model F with standard 2-rod Damascus barrels. This gun matches the catalog description of the $25 New Model F gun. It has HRF stamped on the tubes.

Steve

Re: Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun

Posted by Drew Hause on March 11, 2020, 5:27 pm, in reply to "Re: Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun"

Thanks Steve. And nice job on those high grade barrels.

Re: Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun

Posted by Steve Wesbrook on March 11, 2020, 6:05 pm, in reply to "Re: Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun"

Tom, the fact that you have three Model F guns from 1903-1905 with different styles of fine Damascus steel barrels would seem to make the case that Hunter Arms was using up its inventory during the transition years. Are your guns stocked with well-figured English walnut, with wood that is more typical of the Model F, or something in between? Steve

Re: Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun

Posted by Tom Garver on March 11, 2020, 7:18 pm, in reply to "Re: Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun"

Steve, the stocks on my guns are more typical of what you would expect to see on a model F. One has a bit more figure but nothing like the one you posted. I think some stock blanks are a bit like damascus barrels in the white-sometimes you don't know exactly what you are going to get until the finish

Re: Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun

Posted by Steve Arnett on March 11, 2020, 7:38 pm, in reply to "Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun"

Steve, I hope you bring this to the Southern SxS next month. Bring a towel to wipe off the drool!

Re: Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun

Posted by Dan Wildhaber on March 11, 2020, 11:57 pm, in reply to "Re: Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun"

Notice that the checkering doesn't match the forend. The forend is checkered 14 lpi which would be correct for this gun while the butt is checkered 22 lpi which would be consistent with a much earlier gun which makes one tend to believe the stock is not original to the gun?

Re: Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun

Posted by Steve Wesbrook on March 25, 2020, 4:34 pm, in reply to "Re: Special Order (?) Model F 10-Gauge Hammer Gun"

Dan, the picture that includes a portion of the side of the forend wood is perhaps distorted. I have attached a better picture of the underside of the gun. The original checkering on the forend wood, which was mostly worn off, was 22-point. The wood had been softened by petroleum-based oil contamination over time. After removing the damaged layers, I decided to cut the new checkering at 20-point because 22-point generally does not hold well in older wood that has had some oil-induced damage.

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