The L.C. Smith Collectors Association

The L.C. Smith Collectors Association
[ The L.C. Smith Collectors Association ]

How did you find LC Smith

Posted by Gary Rennles on December 27, 2019, 7:29 pm

Ok so I am thinking about how I came to love the LC Smith.
I was gathering parts for a Rat rod project, just a Hot Rod project.
A friend that I worked with gave me a LC Smith that would make a great shifter...I know don't judge me yet.
Luckily, before I cut and welded, I found this site.
Well I found that it was worth a second chance as a gun worth shooting again.
So one poorly "restored" gun later, I was hooked.
Soooo...I was wondering , what brought you to the LC Smith?

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Re: How did you find LC Smith

Posted by Terry Reckart on December 28, 2019, 7:30 am, in reply to "How did you find LC Smith "

My Father-in-Law had a 16ga. o grade hammer gun that he used to hunt squirrel's and rabbits. He was running a little short on cash so he asked if I would like to buy it. It was not in very good shape, but I bought it. I had some work done on it and took it with me to my first "Southern" about 12 years ago. It just so happened that I made the LC Team that year with that gun. However, when it came time for the Team shoot a hammer spring broke. Not a problem because many of the great people at the shoot offered me a gun to use. On the way home my wife said that I should get a "backup gun". That lead to a Grade 3 12 ga. and the rest is history.

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Re: How did you find LC Smith

Posted by Joe Ray on December 28, 2019, 5:21 pm, in reply to "Re: How did you find LC Smith "

I like old guns, but I am a cowboy action shooter. I was looking for a new hammer double to shoot in the cowboy events and I came across a really nice 12 ga in a gun shop in Boulder. It needed a hammer screw and I came to this site for help. (I get laughed at for shooting a 32" gun at these shoots.) 20+ Elsies later, I am still here. Dr Drew and Tom Archer have been a great help to me over the years.

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Re: How did you find LC Smith

Posted by craig larter on December 29, 2019, 5:40 am, in reply to "How did you find LC Smith "

I got the bug to shoot a 10ga gun after reading about them in series by Sherman Bell in DGJ. I decided to try and find a Smith. My first 10ga was a stroke of luck, a Pigeon grade 10 with 30 inch steel barrels. The gun is one of 4 Pigeon grade 10ga guns made. Since I have added two 10ga grade 3's and a long range Eagle. Along the way I have sold a Ideal 10, Syracuse number 3 10 and grade 1 10.

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Re: How did you find LC Smith

Posted by Eric Oldham on December 29, 2019, 7:20 pm, in reply to "Re: How did you find LC Smith "

My obsession was started by my grandpa. When I was 10 my grandpa and my uncle took me on my first dove hunt. My grandpa had a well worn 00 grade LC Smith 12ga my uncle had a sweet 16 browning A5. I had a single barrel 16ga iver Johnson. I ask to shoot the LC Smith but my uncle kept trying to get me to use the browning. After some discussion and warning about recoil my grandpa let me shoot the smith. I hit the next 3 birds. The next year I had my own LC Smith. I guess my grandpa knew if he ever wanted to hunt with his again he have to find me one. So it started early for me.

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Re: How did you find LC Smith

Posted by John Mistretta on December 30, 2019, 4:28 pm, in reply to "Re: How did you find LC Smith "

n 1957 when I was ten years old I started walking in northern Illinois cornfields around towns like Joliet, Morris, and Coal City Southwest of Chicago with my grandfather, uncle, and older cousins hunting pheasants and rabbits. I didn't know one gun from another but my grandfather had a long barreled double barrel shotgun that I loved the looks of. It was old and worn but had these "side plates" and a profile I just loved. When my cousin and I turned twelve my grandfather let us each pick a gun. I got to pick first and took the one with the 32 inch barrels that weighed a ton. My cousin got a nice Ithaca but not the gun I got. From then on my grandfather hunted with great success using only an old sxs 410 hammer gun. I think he just got tired of hauling that heavy old Smith around. Eventually I ended up in Maryland after reassignment from Viet Nam and have never left. I never hunted again but I never got rid of that old shotgun either. It was given by my grandfather and I never fell out of love with the looks of the thing. For almost forty years it sat on a self. I would clean and oil it and look at it and put it away.
Finally some years ago a friend of mine introduced me to sporting clays. Doubles always suited me being left handed so I pulled it out and fell in love with shooting and that old gun all over again. Very shortly thereafter I decided to rehabilitate it. I started to research what it was and realized for the first time what an L C Smith was and what it represented. I also found the L C Smith Collectors Association which I love. I ruined nothing by restoring the gun that turned out to be an Ideal Grade 1926 12 gauge gun.It has a few more companions of the same name and before I'm done I'll pass it along to my grandson with hopefully enough knowledge and parts to keep it goin a bit longer than I will. This might be a little bit longer than you bargained for but there you have it.

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Re: How did you find LC Smith

Posted by Doug Precourt on December 30, 2019, 6:29 pm, in reply to "Re: How did you find LC Smith "

I first got interested in SxS shotguns because of the traditional look and feel. Although my father only ever used a single Remington 870 Wingmaster, he longed for an old SxS before his young death at 45 years. In 2010 or 2011 I picked up a 16 ga. Lefever Nitro Special at a pawn shop for cheap, using it for a year, but later found a LCS 12 ga field grade, which was amazingly well balanced and better fit me than any previous shot gun. I haven’t looked back since. I now have 6 Elsie’s in 10ga (1), 12ga (4) and 20ga (1), three have hammers with twist or Damascus barrels. Only 2 are not considered “field” grades.

The LCSCA has been wonderful and the assistance of many of its members on the forum and in person has been both warm and collegial. I have devoured every issue of the journal and picked up a few of the LC Smith specific books. I have even come to enjoy working on these old guns myself, despite my lack of skill and experience. Great help has been provided by David W, Mike H, Tom G, Drew H, Jent M, Mike N and Mark R.

Thanks everyone
- Doug

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Re: How did you find LC Smith

Posted by Roger Domer on December 30, 2019, 6:36 pm, in reply to "Re: How did you find LC Smith "

My fortune was someone else’s misfortune. The story goes that two good friends of mine helped me purchase one of my favorite SxSs - an Ideal Grade Smith 12 gauge. The second friend, Sam, purchased the Smith from his neighbor who went to a gun show and purchased the Smith. When the neighbor got home with it .... his wife told him - “You’re not coming in the house with that gun!” Sam told my other friend, Bill, about the gun & he offered it to me. I’ve been a happy camper ever since.

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Re: How did you find LC Smith

Posted by Jim Cantwell on December 31, 2019, 10:20 am, in reply to "Re: How did you find LC Smith "

Back in 2008 at an antique show in Puyallup, Wa. Dealer had one gun hanging on back-wall. I asked to see it. He said was 20 ga, and that he had shot a round of skeet with it during the week, and that it was great. L.S.S. Got it home and after asking on this Forum about the nice 20 ga I had bought, was told it was an OO, 16 ga., 1911. It was/is in good shape. It has harvested a number of turkey for me and my family

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Re: How did you find LC Smith

Posted by Travis Smith on December 31, 2019, 11:12 am, in reply to "Re: How did you find LC Smith "

Local gun shop had a 1921 ideal 20 ga with straight stock and 20 in barrel that had some significant issues. $300 later it was mine and now 3 years later I am still working(little at a time but making good progress) at getting that gun restored.

It was my 1st LC and the fun I had taking it down, making a few tools and learning how it all worked ignited a sick love affair for LCs and a penchant for 300 shotgun projects.

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Re: How did you find LC Smith

Posted by Bob Haase on December 31, 2019, 2:56 pm, in reply to "Re: How did you find LC Smith "

I've hunting most of my life but starting shooting Sporting Clays in the early 90's. I always liked a challenge so about 10 years ago I bought a Stevens 16ga and would shoot that time to time. About 3 years ago several of my sporting clay buds where shooting LC Smith shotguns and it looked like a lot of fun. Shortly after I was at a decoy auction and saw this old LC Smith Hammer Field gun with Damascus barrels I was the winning bidder, it so happened the Vinters shoot was close by that year, I took it and met the LC Smith Collectors they looked it over and thought it was safe to shoot. after the first pair broke I was hooked. The gun has been refinished keeping all the original parts and now hangs over several canvasbacks when not in use.

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Re: How did you find LC Smith

Posted by Zachary Hopkins on January 2, 2020, 4:24 pm, in reply to "How did you find LC Smith "

I'm 27 years old and fell in love with LC Smith's at a very young age. I seen one at a old gun store and could never convince anyone in my family to buy it for me or let me buy it. At that point I have never seen a gun with as much grace and elegance as a Smith. To me a beat up worn out LC Smith field grade is still more elegant than anything new produced. I ended up putting my first LC Smith together through ebay parts and have since purchased over 25 ranging from OO grade and up. I am only just beginning and completely love every aspect of restoration, searching, collecting, and preserving one of America's greatest quality products produced. While I was in veterinary school I was known as the boy with all the 100+ year old guns in his apartment. Big thanks to Jerry Andrews for helping me, working on, and selling me some of the ones I have. Zachary Hopkins

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Re: How did you find LC Smith

Posted by Gary Rennles on January 3, 2020, 9:28 pm, in reply to "Re: How did you find LC Smith "

I must thank everyone, for sharing there stories.
It amazes me as to how such a dated design, could hold such a compassion for the brand.
I look at the lc's that I have accumulated, and I am drawn to the classic beauty.
The feel of the gun in hand...so natural.
The simplicity of design, compared to the modern guns of today is amazing.
Thank you everyone, for sharing.

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Re: How did you find LC Smith

Posted by Jerry Andrews on January 10, 2020, 9:18 am, in reply to "Re: How did you find LC Smith "

Most welcome young man! You've been a wonderful person with which to deal. Very honest and prompt! Thank you for the kind words! Jerry

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Re: How did you find LC Smith

Posted by Daniel R. Simmons on January 11, 2020, 1:36 am, in reply to "How did you find LC Smith "

Hi Gary
I first became interested in LC Smith when I purchased a Syracruse "Hollenbeck Gun" 10 gauge damascus off the wall in a Portland OR gun shop that was changing hands back in the 80's. I still have it, it is rough, with a poorly replaced forend and a bit loose in the hinge pin. My dream is to sacrifice it and build a Hollenbeck 3 barrel on the frame, it looks practically identical externally. How many people have one of those?

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Re: How did you find LC Smith

Posted by Mark Robson on January 11, 2020, 12:34 pm, in reply to "Re: How did you find LC Smith "

A hunting partner shared LC'c with me after I got hooked on doubles with interactions with Larry Brown. He had me work on a couple of his beaters and then showed me his good stuff. He had an A-2 with a broken top spring that I fixed. With all Pre-13 grades except for a 4 including the most wonderful 20 ga Pigeon gun. The balance and feel of that gun are truly remarkable. I haven't had the chance to shoot it but I know it would be a wand.

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Re: How did you find LC Smith

Posted by Tom Garver on January 11, 2020, 1:01 pm, in reply to "Re: How did you find LC Smith "

Daniel, I have a 10 ga Hollenbeck which may be the latest one made by Syracuse Arms. SN 52XX. If you need any help with dimensions or photos for your project please let me know.

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Re: How did you find LC Smith

Posted by Tom Archer on January 11, 2020, 1:11 pm, in reply to "Re: How did you find LC Smith "

Daniel
I've studied and collected Syracuse and Hollenbeck guns for years and can tell you it'd be a fool's errand to attempt to modify your early Hollenbeck marked frame to a 3-barrel; the Syracuse frame would lack the depth to accommodate the rifle barrel in spite of the fact that the frames appear virtually identical outwardly. And although the function of both guns have much in common, all the internal parts are different. If you are serious about a Hollenbeck 3 barrel project gun I suggest you check out Cherry's Fine Guns in Greensboro, NC. On their web site they have several Three Barrel Gun Co/Hollenbeck drillings; all projects to various degrees and priced in the $400-$1,000 range (those marked Royal Gun Co will differ to some degree externally and internally). Two things to remember with these great old guns, don't ever buy one with loose ribs (may be very difficult to regulate properly); and there is no safety for the rifle barrel (all Cherry's ads used to state that the rifle safety doesn't work) as Hollenbeck's drilling design never included a safety for the rifle barrel. Cherry's also has 2-3 Hollenbeck side x sides, and all guns listed are Damascus. These guns were carefully made, beautiful, and expensive when new; so the company didn't survive very long. Too bad a great number of the surviving examples have been neglected and abused.

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Re: How did you find LC Smith

Posted by Tom Archer on January 11, 2020, 1:16 pm, in reply to "Re: How did you find LC Smith "

Tom
For what it's worth, SAC cataloged 10 gauge guns as being available in grades up to Grade 3 thru the end of production (1905). Not many examples were produced based on surviving examples I've located, but I have located one late vintage Grade 3 10-bore in the great state of Alaska.

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Re: How did you find LC Smith

Posted by Daniel R. Simmons on January 12, 2020, 10:03 pm, in reply to "Re: How did you find LC Smith "

Point taken Tom I bow to your superior knowledge on this one. I have never had a Hollenbeck three barrel in my hands but I have studied the old 10 gauge. I thought maybe by putting on a set of 16 doubles high up in the frame, bushing and relocating the firing pins up accordingly, I might buy enough room in the bottom for a 32/40. Underhammer strikers are nothing special to engineer, but then again I have never examined the two guns together. I thought properly done it might be a fitting tribute to the old 10 I figure there isn't enough left of it for a proper restore. PS I am still waiting for the two Elsie receivers to arrive in the mail

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Re: How did you find LC Smith

Posted by Daniel R. Simmons on January 12, 2020, 10:11 pm, in reply to "Re: How did you find LC Smith "

Thanks Tom, but Tom Archer thinks that project might be a wash. Apparently there are many differences in the internals between the three barrel and the side by side that I was not aware of. It was just an idea I have been nursing awhile.

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Re: How did you find LC Smith

Posted by Tom Archer on January 13, 2020, 7:37 am, in reply to "Re: How did you find LC Smith "

Daniel
You're the engineer Friend, not me, so who I am to tell you you're idea isn't doable? I once had an engineer tell me that anything can be "fixed" provided a man is willing to spend enough time and money. Both of those are unknown factors at this point; but since you're a young man and I don't wish to be a neigh-sayer, go for it! And in the process be sure to keep an extensive pictorial and written log of the engineering difficulties, problems encountered, costs, and time required to make a complete gun from one of those stripped frames as I believe the end result will be quite a story. Best to you! Tom

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Re: How did you find LC Smith

Posted by Daniel R. Simmons on January 13, 2020, 11:56 am, in reply to "Re: How did you find LC Smith "

Hello Tom
Not quite an engineer Tom, only made it through pre-engineering before life happened and I had to quit. I am a machinist by trade, gun crank by preference. I took my old Hollenbeck down today, and there are two Hollenbeck 3 barrels on Gunbroker currently with excellent pictures of all components. One original and one marked 12/12/22 mag. Something fishy there that round emerged in 1959. You were right the 3 barrel is quite a bit deeper in the receiver under the barrels. I photographed my Hollenbeck 10 today. I'll try to post the pictures and see what the gang thinks of it. I am not one to work on rare original equipment unless it is pretty much headed for the scrap heap anyway. What would we do without neat old guns?

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Re: How did you find LC Smith

Posted by Tom Archer on January 13, 2020, 12:42 pm, in reply to "Re: How did you find LC Smith "

The two Hollenbeck guns on GB have been re-chambered to modern cartridges and are apparently over-priced as they've been listed for about two years. These guns were mostly chambered in obsolete BP cartridges (25/20 and 25/25 Stevens, 32/20, 32/40, etc.) Some later examples were chambered in 25/35, 30/30, and 32 Win Special; but I know of no chamberings larger than .32 caliber. I own a Three Barrel Gun Co/Hollenbeck drilling in 12/12x32-40; the original records for this gun still exists and it has survived intact and unaltered. I got this gun from Cherry's and it was advertised as non-working and priced accordingly. After they'd listed the gun for months, I made a low-ball offer which was accepted (all those guns are on consignment). I wanted the gun because it is part of the Hollenbeck/Syracuse Arms/Baltimore Arms/Hollenbeck Gun Co story that I have researched for years and I needed a cheap representative piece for study. Externally this gun was in great condition and I figured, should I later part it out, the price paid was less than the value of the parts. When the gun was received it was disassembled and the problems quickly revealed; the cocking arm was broken off the right side hammer/firing pin unit, and the cocking "ear" was missing from the left side of the rotary cocking device housed within the barrel lug. Lo and behold I see an eBay listing for a parted out Royal Gun Co drilling the very next week that some knucklehead had re-chambered to a high pressure cartridge and blew the lug off the barrels. I was the only bidder on the lug and internal parts; Buck Hamlin was able to fit those salvaged parts into my gun and I now have a functioning TBG gun. As you are an advanced machinist/gun nut, then I encourage you to check out Cherry's for a cheap project drilling should that be something you want. My experience is that it's much more cost effective to begin a restoration project beginning with a gun that still retains most or all of its parts.

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Re: How did you find LC Smith

Posted by Daniel R. Simmons on January 13, 2020, 4:41 pm, in reply to "Re: How did you find LC Smith "

Couldn't be more in agreement with you Tom, it is always easier and better to start with a project that is mostly there. Seems a tragedy of sorts to not do something with the Hollenbeck 10 though. It deserves better than winding up a wallhanger.

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Re: How did you find LC Smith

Posted by Tom Archer on January 13, 2020, 6:32 pm, in reply to "Re: How did you find LC Smith "

Daniel
Sounds like someone got their money's worth out of the old Hollenbeck based on your description; so sometimes it's just best to preserve a battered old relic as it is and hang it on the wall. But if you do decide to do something with this piece, you need to know some basic things about SAC guns. First of all, the fact that the name on the gun is HOLLENBECK means that the sn# is most likely below 5K. It also means that you have what is known as a FIRST MODEL frame, and that the forend hanger is composed of a flat V spring device as opposed to the later J spring
type fastener. First model frames were in production till about serial number 24,000. At that point the second model frame was introduced for about two years, then the frame modified again with a change in the cocking mechanism to create a 3rd model frame. All this means that barrels from these three models are not interchangeable. Since you're a machinist, and assuming you realty wanted to take on such a project(and would likely never find a set of 10 or 16 gauge barrels), you could look for a set of 12-bore First Model barrels and fit those to your frame. Doing so would require relocating firing pin holes in the breech face, modifying hammer strikes; then filing breech balls to the new correct profile. If you did this you'd also be wise to find a barrel set utilizing the J spring fastener and J spring fore iron, as Hollenbeck's V spring device does not hold the iron as secure as the J spring so that the fore arms on these early guns will often detach during recoil. Again, best of luck.

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Re: How did you find LC Smith

Posted by Daniel R. Simmons on January 13, 2020, 8:34 pm, in reply to "Re: How did you find LC Smith "

Hi Tom
All seems to be as you describe. The strong point of this gun is matching serial number 3808 on all parts and the buttstock condition which is completely sound in the action area albeit with plenty of blemishes and chips everywhere else The checkering is almost worn smooth. I am in the process of posting some pictures for the membership

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Locking thread

Posted by Jim Stubbendieck on January 15, 2020, 10:38 am, in reply to "Re: How did you find LC Smith "

I am locking this thread. It is long and has moved off topic. Please feel free to start a new thread on either topic.

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[ The L.C. Smith Collectors Association ]