The L.C. Smith Collectors Association

The L.C. Smith Collectors Association
[ The L.C. Smith Collectors Association ]

The mystery of the 'R' suffix :(

Posted by Drew Hause on April 18, 2019, 9:34 am

The meaning of a 'R' AFTER the serial number is uncertain but may indicate the A.P. Curtis Forend Fastener used c.1912 to 1920.

12g 1914 FW Field

1910 20g 00 FW with the standard snap-on FE

Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :(

Posted by Jim Stubbendieck on April 18, 2019, 12:55 pm, in reply to "The mystery of the 'R' suffix :("
Edited by board administrator April 18, 2019, 12:56 pm

Drew:

I think that the R suffix simply means that that the shotgun has extractors rather than ejectors. During that manufacturing period, one column of the ledgers contained an "E" or "R". Earlier and later, nothing was recorded in that column other than an "E". I suppose that if you had "E" which was used from the start, there was no reason to use another letter to indicate extractor. I think that the "R" stood for "regular" or some similar term.

To test this idea, I checked with 15-20 people who had requested research letters for shotguns made during this period to see if their shotguns had the Curtis forend release. About half had the Curtis, and the other half did not. But, all had extractors.

Drew, this may be one of the things we never know, but I am interested in learning if there are any unaltered shotguns with the letter "R" as a SUFFIX to the serial number that have automatic ejectors.

Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :(

Posted by Stanley Hackett on April 18, 2019, 2:43 pm, in reply to "Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :("

I've got a Field Grade with a Curtis forend. Has extractors, no "R." Just the serial number and "Field."

Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :(

Posted by Roger Domer on April 18, 2019, 10:23 pm, in reply to "Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :("

I have a 12 gauge, Curtis forearm, serial # 355732 R, plus a FIELD printed below the serial number. It has extractors. Nice shotgun. Bought this previously neglected shotgun at Bart’s in Glen Burnie MD. Must have been sitting in someone’s closet for 3 or 4 decades. But, under the dust there was a heck of a shooter. HAPPY TRAILS. RLD

Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :(

Posted by Robert Marshall on April 22, 2019, 2:50 pm, in reply to "The mystery of the 'R' suffix :("

I'm looking at Trap gun with a "RE" before the serial number.

Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :(

Posted by Tom Archer on April 22, 2019, 8:26 pm, in reply to "Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :("

Robert
An "RE" serial number prefix is factory code for:
R - Denotes standard size frame as opposed to a Featherweight or "FW" frame;
E - Denotes that this gun was originally shipped with optional automatic ejectors.

With the exception of the "R", "FW" and "E" prefix symbols, not other factory code prefix stamps are included with Smith serial numbers until the company is acquired by Marlin. Marlin only produced Smith guns on the featherweight frame, but these later guns also feature another prefix stamp "S" to denote the gun was produced under Marlin ownership; therefore all Marlin era guns are prefix stamped "FWS", and Marlin era guns with auto ejectors "FWSE".

Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :(

Posted by Mike Harris on April 23, 2019, 9:14 am, in reply to "Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :("

After looking at my curtis forend guns this past week, they are all extractor guns. Mike

Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :(

Posted by Mark Britton on April 23, 2019, 8:36 pm, in reply to "Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :("

My 20ga OO serial # 4322 has a Curtis forend and a R after the serial number.

Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :( DUMPSTER FIRE REVISITED

Posted by Steve Arnett on September 1, 2020, 2:47 pm, in reply to "Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :("

Gentlemen: I just read through most of the archived threads on the "R" suffix. Now to add my bacon grease to this fire! I just purchased a 20 ga. OO, SN 41XX. I haven't received the gun yet, but one of the photos showed the barrel flats. The markings included the SN, the "OO" grade under the SN, and "R" stamped a good distance the right of the SN. Seller indicated all SN's matched, frame, barrels, and forend. The gun is equipped with EJECTORS, but the gun has no "E" after the grade. It has a roller latch on the forend, but the escutcheon for it is plain, narrow, and parallel-sided (not banjo-style).
So, what can we surmise? Serial number lookup indicates 1912 completion date. Featherweight frame (screws in the front extension of the lockplates). It appears that the gun was originally shipped with extractors, and returned to have ejectors retrofitted. It would seem plausible that the "R" was stamped on it at that time.
It also appears that this gun was produced prior to the Curtis Release (OO grade, 1912). When I receive the gun, I should be able to confirm that the forend wood is matching, and if it is inletted for the Curtis hardware. Seems unlikely. Photos to follow, if I can figure out how to upload them.

Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :(

Posted by Steve Arnett on September 1, 2020, 3:01 pm, in reply to "Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :("

Mark, see my post above, this date. It appears that your gun and mine were both produced in 1912. Perhaps my "R" indicates it was returned for installation of ejectors, and your "R" indicates it was returned to have the Curtis release installed. As I understood it, the Curtis release wasn't made until 1913?

Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :(

Posted by Jerry Spinks on September 3, 2020, 3:49 pm, in reply to "Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :("

Hi I have a field grade Smith 12ga that has the Curtis release serial number #349917 and can not any r marked on the frame. I will be sending in for a letter this month. This gun does not have injectors.

There is no mystery

Posted by Jim Stubbendieck on September 3, 2020, 5:03 pm, in reply to "Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :("

Please reread the second the second entry in this thread.

Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :(

Posted by Curt perry on September 4, 2020, 5:22 am, in reply to "Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :("

I have two guns with Curtis forends; one a 12 ga Ideal grade with the “R” before the serial number and a 20 ga Speciality grade with the “R” after the serial number . Both are extractors

keyboard alphabet

Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :(

Posted by Tom Archer on September 4, 2020, 10:19 am, in reply to "Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :("

There is no debate regarding the "R" prefix with the Ideal Grade serial number; that stamp denotes that the gun was built on the Regular frame (or "R" frame) platform. Again, refer to Jim's earlier post regarding the significance of the "R" suffix.

Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :( DUMPSTER FIRE REVISITED

Posted by Steve Arnett on October 2, 2020, 3:04 pm, in reply to "Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :( DUMPSTER FIRE REVISITED"

After reviewing the Year of Manufacture charts on our website, I have determined that the ejectors on my gun must have been retrofitted. My serial number is 41XX, which is out of the range of 20 gauge hammerless ejector models. Those begin in 1907 with SN 5,000. Also, there is no "E" in any of the markings.
Is it possible to determine from the style of roller latch when the ejectors may have been added?

file upload image

Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :( DUMPSTER FIRE REVISITED

Posted by Steve Arnett on October 2, 2020, 3:37 pm, in reply to "Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :( DUMPSTER FIRE REVISITED"

At some point, the chambers were lengthened to 2 3/4". Perhaps at the same time the ejectors were fitted?

Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :( DUMPSTER FIRE REVISITED

Posted by Tom Archer on October 2, 2020, 4:06 pm, in reply to "Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :( DUMPSTER FIRE REVISITED"

The escutcheon style on your 20-bore was introduced with the elimination of the "banjo" escutcheon. Not sure exactly when that change occurred (late 30's maybe?), but that is a clear indication to me that your gun was returned to Hunter long after it originally shipped for the addition of auto-ejectors.

Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :( DUMPSTER FIRE REVISITED

Posted by Steve Arnett on October 7, 2020, 9:17 am, in reply to "Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :( DUMPSTER FIRE REVISITED"

Tom, I agree. It is also one of the reasons I think that the "R" is not a serial number suffix at all. My theory is that it indicates that the gun was returned to the factory for re-work. In the photos on this thread, the letter is far removed from the serial number and grade markings. As Jim indicated, there are "R" notes in the ledger for a period, but that doesn't necessarily mean that this was stamped on the gun.
One way to check my theory would be to look for differences in configuration between these guns and what the ledger shows.

Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :( DUMPSTER FIRE REVISITED

Posted by Jim Stubbendieck on October 7, 2020, 11:53 am, in reply to "Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :( DUMPSTER FIRE REVISITED"

Steve:

The records for your shotgun indicate that it is an "R" or shell extractor shotgun. The "R" appears to me to be in the correct location. The gap between the last number and letter is usual. I am not aware that the Hunter Arms Company stamped an "R" on guns returned to the factory. I've seen guns that were returned to be fitted with single triggers and beavertail forends, and none were stamped with an "R".

Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :( DUMPSTER FIRE REVISITED

Posted by Steve Arnett on October 9, 2020, 12:57 pm, in reply to "Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :( DUMPSTER FIRE REVISITED"

Jim, thanks for confirming the original configuration of my gun. Were all extractor guns from that period marked with the "R" suffix? And the ledger column had either "E" or "R" as well?

Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :( DUMPSTER FIRE REVISITED

Posted by Jim Stubbendieck on October 9, 2020, 2:04 pm, in reply to "Re: The mystery of the 'R' suffix :( DUMPSTER FIRE REVISITED"

At that time, there were separate serial number blocks for the "R" and "E" shotguns. The automatic ejector gun block had a column with an "E" on each line following the serial number in the ledger and the shell extractor block had a column with an "R" on each line following the serial number.

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