The L.C. Smith Collectors Association

The L.C. Smith Collectors Association
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4E 1906 Live Bird Gun

Posted by Ted Shoemaker on January 12, 2019, 2:09 pm

Iam looking at a 4E Live Bird Gun at auction that has second set of barrels marked 2E but is serial numbered to the 4E gun. Is this somthing that was done by the factory or is their something fishy about this? The gun is a 1906 vintage. The auction house is very respected and well known.The gun is rated NRA very good,w/ 28" barrels chocked cyl./cyl.

Re: 4E 1906 Live Bird Gun

Posted by Drew Hause on January 12, 2019, 4:11 pm, in reply to "4E 1906 Live Bird Gun"
Edited by board administrator January 12, 2019, 4:28 pm

Please check Tom Archer's contributions under History in the FAQs - "How were additional or replacement barrels from the Hunter Arms factory marked?"

To clarify, the gun has no safety? The 28" 4E cyl/cyl barrels would certainly not be for Live Bird competition. Some high dollar southern quail plantation guns were ordered without a safety. The 2E chokes are not listed on the auction site.

Sounds like a significant investment and a Research letter would be prudent before purchase.

Re: 4E 1906 Live Bird Gun

Posted by Ted Shoemaker on January 12, 2019, 6:03 pm, in reply to "Re: 4E 1906 Live Bird Gun"

Thank you Drew for the correction in nomenclature (ie) no safety gun, not a live bird gun. I knew the chocks were to open for live bird.I will do a letter, it will be money well spent.

Re: 4E 1906 Live Bird Gun

Posted by Dick Miller on January 12, 2019, 7:51 pm, in reply to "Re: 4E 1906 Live Bird Gun"

Ted,
A letter on a gun of that grade is certainly a wise investment, but don't be disappointed if it makes no mention of the second set of tubes. The pre-13 records were not as detailed as the later records. For instance, I know of a 20 Monogram, vintage 1912, that has a second set of Crown tubes, numbered to the gun, that the records makes no mention of the Crown barrels. From what I'm told an owner would order tubes for a lower grade gun to save money. The factory would number them to the owner's frame when fitting them and not record such in the records.

Re: 4E 1906 Live Bird Gun

Posted by Ted Shoemaker on January 13, 2019, 4:06 pm, in reply to "Re: 4E 1906 Live Bird Gun"

Thanks Dick,that is what I have been seeing as I continue research the possibility's on the gun. Thanks for your input.

how were the chokes and bores determined ???

Posted by Jent P Mitchell III on January 15, 2019, 3:02 pm, in reply to "4E 1906 Live Bird Gun"

How were the chokes and bores determined on these two different sets of barrels ???... What tools did they use to determine the chokes ???... Here is a warning for you ...... A very very distinguished auction house had multiple Parker and other American made SXS shotguns up for auction listing them all as 12 gauge SXS shotguns .... I was so interested that I drove over 150 miles one way to view and inspect these various American made SXS shotguns ..... I was very impressed with the very nice collection of 10 BORE SXS shotguns that they had listed as 12 gauge SXS shotguns ...... YES, they were ALL 10 bore SXS shotguns ..... I did buy one of them in that auction .... a cyl/cyl L C Smith might very well be a nice 10 bore L C Smith ..... ask again who measured the bores and chokes and how did they measure the bores and chokes, what tools did they use???... Good Shooting To You All, Jent .... 15 January 2019.

Re: how were the chokes and bores determined ???

Posted by Ted Shoemaker on January 17, 2019, 8:31 pm, in reply to "how were the chokes and bores determined ???"

I was told the second set of 2E barrels chocks were .688 & .685. I will ask who and how they were measured. Thanks for your input.

Re: how were the chokes and bores determined ???

Posted by David Williamson on November 11, 2024, 1:57 pm, in reply to "Re: how were the chokes and bores determined ???"

This post is old but in order to know choke you also have to know bore size. Sticking one of those Galazan brass gages or any stepped gage in the end of the barrel is only telling you it has choke.
Prime example I had a 16 gauge that originally came with 26" barrels, now cut to 24 3/4". This gun originally had the .650 bore size to choke area which was changed in the mid 30's. The constriction in both barrels was .014. A Galazan gage stated full choke.
Taking a choke gage to a show or auction will again only show you that it does or does not have any constriction.

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