Joe, My opinion, for what it's worth is that when the Ideal grade came out (1913) it was alot of gun for the money. Conventional thought was it replaced the "O" grade which had little if any engraving. The stocks of many Ideal grades can be highly figured. I agree with you that they are equal to Fox As. They are a favorite of mine because of the extensive engraving over much of the locks and frame and as the books says how the look like autumn leaves when the case colors are vibrant. I think the reason they don't cause as much stir both fiscally and collector wise is because they were made in fairly large quantity even in .410 when compared to all other grades except field. I like them enough that they are about the only grade I collected in all gauges. The .410s are at crazy levels now and the 10ga isn;t easy at all. Good luck, Jeff Brant.