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Edward Murrin

Posted by David Murrian on 3/1/2024, 11:09 am

Researching Edward Murrin, b. Hatherleigh 1747, died Kingsteignton 1816.
Noticed 5 entries in Kingsteignton Apprentice Register on FMP. First was 1802 for apprentice Moist, Master Edward Murrin "of Estate Burnells for Burnells Estate". Then in 1807 apprentice Sarah Scott, Master Edward Murrin notes by Consent, Then, again 1807 apprentice Wm Moist, Master Edward Murrin "of estate Burnells". Then in 1808, apprentice, again, Wm Moist, Master Edward Murrin "of estate Burnells", Then, finally, in 1811, apprentice Thomas Border, Master Edward Murrin "of estate Burnells". Can anyone help me to understand the references in each case after Edward Murrin's name to his being "of estate Burnells", except in the case of Sarah Scott, where after Edward Murrin's name simply comes "notes BY CONSENT", so why might a consent be needed in that case, but not the others and what might "of estate Burnells" signify?

Re: Edward Murrin

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Re: Edward Murrin

Posted by Chris on 24/1/2024, 3:15 pm, in reply to "Edward Murrin"

Have you searched Devon Heritage Online Catalogue for Edward Murrin, quick search throws up these 2 results for Kingsteignton https://devon-cat.swheritage.org.uk/search/all:all/0_50/collection%3AKingsteignton%20Parish/score_desc/edward%20murrin

Re: Edward Murrin

Posted by David Murrian on 25/1/2024, 11:13 am, in reply to "Re: Edward Murrin"

Thanks Chris for your helpful addition to the earlier posts.
Realised I was wrong in one of my previous replying posts saying Edward was a tailor - he wasn't, but his son and grandson were. Difficult to decide what Edward was, but given at least one of the masters of James Joslin(g) in your info. was a farmers and the others likely to have also been - coupled with 1841 which says Joslin was an ag. lab. - Edward must have also been in agriculture, but whether as a tenant of the Estate or an employee as some sort of farm manager (or both) is a bit of a guess.
Interesting that there were 2 settlement examinations, so Joslin must have got back after the first one in 1820, if it was successful, or Kingsteignton were having a second try for some reason in 1834 is unclear

.
I will definately be visiting Exeter to look at the original records some time, especially the apprentice registers, so will also have a look at the Settlement examinations purely out of interest, but one never knows what might come up.

Regards, and thanks again, David

Re: Edward Murrin

Posted by Art on 4/1/2024, 8:59 pm, in reply to "Edward Murrin"

The parish apprenticeship indentures were usually just a contract between the Overseers of the Poor and the local Justice of the Peace enabling the Overseers to place a young poor child out to a farm (or other estate) which was obliged to take them as part of their share of the parish obligations. Therefore the information in the index is probably as good as you will get.
If you look at the NLS maps as suggested you will find Bussells and thus where your ancestor employed these apprentices (usually up to the age of 21).
Dccviewer is also a valuable website as you can then easily jump between maps and see exactly where Bussells is today in the Preston area of Kingsteignton. You can then use Google Earth to see what it looks like today.
The Kingsteignton Vestry minutes at the Devon Heritage Centre may give you more information on your family

Re: Edward Murrin

Posted by David Murrian on 5/1/2024, 1:45 pm, in reply to "Re: Edward Murrin"

Thanks for the various advice. Incidentally Art, it was Burnells not Bussells, in case that affects what you have said

David

Re: Edward Murrin

Posted by Judith on 3/1/2024, 9:40 pm, in reply to "Edward Murrin"

Is there an estate or land owned by someone named Burnells? If so then Edward Murrin was probably a manager doing the hiring and firing on behalf of his master.
with consent might have to do with parents agreeing to apprenticeship

Re: Edward Murrin

Posted by David Murrian on 4/1/2024, 2:29 pm, in reply to "Re: Edward Murrin"

Thank you for your comments. I think I am going to have to visit Exeter sometime to see the original record, as the entry I found on FMP was only a transcript. I only have limited experience of seeing an Apprentice Register (i.e. that was one you directed me to in your input to a previous query of mine on the Board in Feb. 2021 regarding Digory and his son William, then, Martin) and it was a financial register detailing the duty payable on the payment to a Master by the father of the Apprentice. So I wonder if the present case is also a similar financial Register but not wholly transcribed - so I want to check. I wondered about your ideas but dismissed it, as Edward was a tailor, rather than an Estate worker.

Incidentally your input on the previous case was of consideable help, as although that case related to an apprenticeship in Hatherleigh, the father and his son, were said to be of Davidstow in Cornwall and it was the first time, after many years of research, that I found that the family, who always seemed to be from Devon, might have originated from Cornwall. I had promised to keep you advised of any further developments, but, try as I have from time to time, there is still nothing further which has yet come from my endeavours to expand on that clue.

Regards, David

Re: Edward Murrin

Posted by Judith on 5/1/2024, 11:38 am, in reply to "Re: Edward Murrin"

Perhaps it was a tailoring apprenticeship? A visit to Exeter Heritage centre would be useful. The staff there are very helpful.

Re: Edward Murrin

Posted by David Murrian on 5/1/2024, 1:50 pm, in reply to "Re: Edward Murrin"

Thanks everyone. Yes, Judith they are always very helpful, and I suspect, especially in the case of the males, that it could well have been a tailoring apprentice. Unfortunately it is a bit of a way to go from Birmingham to Exeter. We are going to Cornwall so could pop in at least to look at the actual Register. Sadly, we go down to Cornwall on a Monday and return on a Friday, both days being their closed days. I'll try a written enquiry to them in the first place.

David

Re: Edward Murrin

Posted by Karen Newman on 4/1/2024, 4:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Edward Murrin"

It might be worth having a look at the Tithe Map info for Kingsteignton:

https://www.devon.gov.uk/historicenvironment/tithe-map/

It's later than the dates for the apprenticeships, but if you download the PDF, you will see there are 2 plots of land: Burnells Marsh and Burnells Brake.

A Google search brought up a Burnells Cottage in Preston, Kingsteignton, a Grade II listed building.

https://www.heritagegateway.org.uk/gateway/Results_Single.aspx?uid=MDV39768&resourceID=104

If you go to the National Library of Scotland side by side viewer, there's a map (1873 -1888) that shows Burnells, presumably an estate:

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=17.0&lat=50.56064&lon=-3.61253&layers=178&right=ESRIWorld

and another (1840-1880) https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=17.0&lat=50.56064&lon=-3.61253&layers=257&right=ESRIWorld

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