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Frederick Knapman's Spouse

Posted by John Bennett on 10/3/2023, 3:45 pm

Frederick Knapman, born 1838 in Stoke Damerel was one of 12 children born to John Knapman and Mary Ann Bidder/Byder.
I have found Frederick with his parents in the 1941, 51 & 1861 census records. He is also at his parents residence with wife Mary in 1861 and still in Stoke Damerel with Mary Ann in 1871.No children are recorded.
Federick died in Feb. 1875 and is buried at Ford Park Cemetery.
I have been unable to find a viable marriage for Frederick and Mary (Ann).
Searching FMP, Ancestry and Family Search produced one possible marriage with a Mary Milton in Tiverton in 1856. However, this shows Frederick as a Cattle Dealer, whereas he was a Dockyard employee. This record shows the groom's father as John Knapman, a farrier, whereas Frederick's father John was a blacksmith. Frederick's place of abode is recorded as Calverleigh, some distance from his home and the dockyard.
Searches for Mary Ann after Frederick's death is also problematic. I have found a widowed Mary
Knapman in the 1891 and 1901 census with children, born in the period 1861 - 1875. However, the records for the birth of these children indicate that Mary is the widow of William Knapman.
If any member is able to share details of a viable marriage for Frederick and Mary and of Mary's whereabouts after Frederick's death, I would be extremely grateful.

John Bennett

Re: Frederick Knapman's Spouse

Posted by Judith on 13/3/2023, 12:17 pm, in reply to "Frederick Knapman's Spouse"

Looking at the marriage you discounted, a farrier is often a blacksmith as well, people did elaborate their status sometimes. Frederick could have could have done other jobs before the dockyard job. 1861 he is a Sawyer, so could have done jobs after his apprenticeship as blacksmith, or could have quit the blacksmithing and been a general labourer it might have paid more, calling himself a cattle dealer better than a cowman, then gets a job with a sawyer , then has the chance of work in the dockyard and been doing some sort of blacksmithing there, and works there.
I found a Mary Knapman on 1901 cnsus living 15 clifton street Plymouth. aged 65. (perhaps place of death for Fred on death cert?

Re: Frederick Knapman's Spouse

Posted by John Bennett on 13/3/2023, 12:26 pm, in reply to "Re: Frederick Knapman's Spouse"

Thank you Judith,
A further reason for discounting the marriage with Mary Milton is that that couple had numerous children in the 1850/60 period. Whereas, my Frederick and Mary had no children living with them in 1861 and 1871.

John

Re: Frederick Knapman's Spouse

Posted by jUDITH on 13/3/2023, 2:02 pm, in reply to "Re: Frederick Knapman's Spouse"

Good research, I missed that.

Re: Frederick Knapman's Spouse

Posted by Deborah on 12/3/2023, 9:53 am, in reply to "Frederick Knapman's Spouse"

There's a widowed Mary A KNAPMAN in 1881 aged 53 born Modbury, living in Cornwall Street, Plymouth. A death registration in Dec 1884 Plymouth seems to match this person. However, she is 10 years too old.
The Mary MUGRIDGE referred to by another poster was married to an Edward and as a couple they are both shown in the 1871 census, so not your Frederick's wife.

Re: Frederick Knapman's Spouse

Posted by Deborah on 10/3/2023, 6:51 pm, in reply to "Frederick Knapman's Spouse"

The Frederick who married Mary MILTON was shown in 1871 living in Heavitree. In 1861, they are mis-transcribed as KROPMAN and living in Topsham. Fredk the father is a farmer. So you can rule out that marriage at least.

Re: Frederick Knapman's Spouse

Posted by John Bennett on 11/3/2023, 7:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Frederick Knapman's Spouse"

Thank you Deborah,

You have confirmed my opinion as to the Milton marriage.

John Bennett

Re: Frederick Knapman's Spouse

Posted by Peter Selley on 11/3/2023, 8:50 pm, in reply to "Re: Frederick Knapman's Spouse"

John

Clutching at straws here but there was a marriage on 8 Nov 1858 in Devonport between "Edward" Knapman (son of John) and Mary Mugridge.

Happy hunting!

Re: Frederick Knapman's Spouse

Posted by Judith on 12/3/2023, 9:19 am, in reply to "Re: Frederick Knapman's Spouse"

Mary E.F.KNAPMAN DIED 1911 PLYMOUTH, a widow, looking further her names are Mary Elizabeth Freebarn Knapman, found a tree put on line which gives her parents as James Freebarn a musician(Marines?) and Mary plus siblings. with 1841 details from genes re-united.
Might be worth getting the death cert might have more info.
Will keep looking.

Re: Frederick Knapman's Spouse

Posted by judith on 12/3/2023, 9:36 am, in reply to "Re: Frederick Knapman's Spouse"

Not sure now about the one I found, she seems to have a son in 1901 Born Gunnislake, and tracing him back her husband seems to be a George Knapman. Sorry.

Re: Frederick Knapman's Spouse

Posted by John Bennett on 12/3/2023, 10:18 am, in reply to "Re: Frederick Knapman's Spouse"

Thank you Peter and Judith,
I have seen the records you mention and have already discounted them.
In 1958 'Frederick' would have been about 20, Edward is 31. John the father was most definitely a blacksmith, not a labourer.
Thank you for your interest.
Having found all the relevant records for the other 11 children, it is frustrating that Frederick's are proving so elusive.

John

Re: Frederick Knapman's Spouse

Posted by Judith on 12/3/2023, 12:11 pm, in reply to "Re: Frederick Knapman's Spouse"

Have you obtained his death cert, might confirm that informant is wife?

Re: Frederick Knapman's Spouse

Posted by John Bennett on 18/3/2023, 9:53 am, in reply to "Re: Frederick Knapman's Spouse"

Good Morning,
Rhe Death Cert.pdf has now arrived and reveals that the informant was his sister Mary Jane Farmer. He died of Pneumonia in the Royal Albert Hospital.
Rhis doesn't advance my knowledge of Frederick's spouse, but has enabled me to determine that Mary Jane was married to John Farmer from Cupar, Fife, a naval man who had obviously met Mary Jane whilst in Devonport. They retired to Norfolk and died there.
Thanks again for the comments/suggestions.

John

Re: Frederick Knapman's Spouse

Posted by Judith on 18/3/2023, 11:27 am, in reply to "Re: Frederick Knapman's Spouse"

glad to have helped. At least you discovered a bit more. Perhaps they never married, and she could have reverted to her maiden name when he died? Sometimes they married when first child en route, and if no children, it did not happen.

Re: Frederick Knapman's Spouse

Posted by John Bennett on 12/3/2023, 8:18 pm, in reply to "Re: Frederick Knapman's Spouse"

Yes Judith,
I have ordered the pdf.

John

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