Have recently been checking the children of William Murrin (initally from Hatherleigh) and wife, Ann (Tavenner)(initially of Germansweek) who married 1812 at Broadwoodwidger.
They first had 3 daughters before the next 5 of their children who were all male. It is the daughters in whom I am now interested. The first daughter was Thomasin, baptised 1812 but who died 1824 - buried Broadwoodwidger but said to be of Broadmorehead, Stowford). Next came Jane, baptised, Lifton, 1817 and finally Elizabeth, baptised Lifton 1819.
It is Elizabeth who particularly interests me and who she might have married.
There is an Elizabeth who married a William Tremeer in 1840 at Stoke Damerel, when her father is said to be William Murrin. In the 1841 Census at Bradworthy (District 4) there is a William Tremeer, 29, ag. lab. born Devon and Elizabeth Tremeer, 25, but not born Devon. In the next 3 Census years they are at Chudleigh when Elizabeth is conversely said to be born at Teigngrace, Devon (near Newton Abbot - an area to which it is apparent that some of the Murrin family had earlier moved from the Hatherleigh area though not, as far as I know, anyone immediately connected to William.
The age of Elizabeth in these Census years suggests she was born abt. 1815 but not too early to be otherwise discounted. The area around Newton Abbot is what concerns me, being some distance from the Lifton area, and especially her birthplace, all of which does not fill me with confidence.
I have however found another Elizabeth who married a William Stone at Hennock in 1833, both said to be OTP. Only indication of her age is that the words "with consent of" are crossed though, so apparently older than 21. There is no indication of the name of her father, but the witnesses are William Murrin and Jane Murrin - much better, being the known father & sister of Elizabeth. I turned again to the Census years to see if those help. Unfortunately I couldn't find the couple in 1841, but have found them in 1851 at Georges Street, St. Petrock, Exeter. They appear there as William Stone, 55, Coach Trimmer, born St. Sidwell, Devon and Elizabeth Stone, 38, born - what looks like and what is transcribed as - Tamstock, but in Devon. I do not know of a Tamstock in Devon and feel that it could be Tavistock but not written correctly. Her age is again a little early for a birth of 1819 but given the possibility of the birthplace being Tavistock and the witnesses at the marriage being, probably her father and sister, I have persuaded myself that this marriage is indeed that of Elizabeth I have been seeking, and certainly better than the alternative marriage to William Tremeer.
However, last night, I was reading a book which refers to a Tawstock in Devon, and looking again at the 1851 Census (I cannot find them in later Census years)there is a possibility that Tamstock might meant to be Tawstock (in the Barnstaple arear close to the Devon boarder with Somerset - and even further away from Lifton than Teigngrace?), but still favour the possibility of it being miswritten for Tavistock.
Would anyone who might have "better eyes" than mine (though I have enlarged the image at lot) have a look to see what they might feel about my interpretation.
Thanks, David
Re: Murrin daughters
Posted by Judith on 23/3/2021, 12:25 pm, in reply to "Murrin daughters"
Tawstock could be misread as Tavistock and vice versa. I had someone listed as Tawstock, but looking at the actual document was able to see that it should have been transcribed as Tavistock.
Re: Murrin daughters
Posted by David Murrian on 24/3/2021, 10:44 am, in reply to "Re: Murrin daughters"
Thank you Deborah and Judith for your responses. It is significant that both of you agree that what has been taken as "Tamstock" was actually "Tavistock" which (as also the Registration District) includes Lifton where Elizabeth was baptised in 1819. Despite my previous comment, she wouldn't, of course, really have been born much earlier than that given the baptisims of her 2 older sisters.
Thank you Deborah for the baptism of an Elizabeth in 1813 at Teigngrace.
As the Elizabeth I found at Chudleigh in 1861, 1871, & 1881 with William Tremeer was said to have been born at Teigngrace, I am inclined to think that this Elizabeth must be the one who married William in 1840 at Stoke Damerel. In those same Census years, William was said to have been born at Plymouth, perhaps the reason for the marriage having been at Stoke Damerel, though they would have apparently then moved to Exeter.
This does of course leave unresolved the question of who was the Elizabeth who married William Stone in 1833, when as you say "my" Elizabeth should have only been 14, if it was she who was baptised in 1819. Females could have of course married once they were 12 "with consent" but if so in Elizabeth's case, why were those words were deleted in the Register.
I only found a William and Elizabeth Stone in the 1851 Census at St.Petrock, Exeter.
All leads to the questions : 1. was 1851 the correct couple 2. was, at least, Elizabeth not telling her correct age in 1851 and if so, why or 3. was Elizabeth really 14 when she married, apparently without consent.
The only explanation I can offer is that it looks from the Marriage Register that her father and sister were present so did the Vicar accept they must have been consenting. But if so he should have noted it in the Register so why did he deleted the words.
All confusing to indicate the need for my continuing research to see if anything further comes up to confirm or otherwise, who exactly Elizabeth was.
Thank you again for for interest and useful comments.
David
Re: Murrin daughters
Posted by David Murrian on 23/3/2021, 10:24 am, in reply to "Murrin daughters"
Apologies for a follow up so soon, but have just noticed that Ancestry transcribe the birthplace in the 1851 Census entry as Taurstock - makes me even more sure about the possibility of the word being Tavistock. (Tamstock is a transcription by Find My Past and Family Search)
David
Re: Murrin daughters
Posted by Deborah O'Brien on 23/3/2021, 10:26 am, in reply to "Re: Murrin daughters"
The Elizabeth who married in 1833 at Hennock is more likely to be Elizabeth baptised to William & Mary in 1813 at Teigngrace - 5 miles from Hennock.
Re: Murrin daughters
Posted by Deborah O'Brien on 23/3/2021, 10:23 am, in reply to "Murrin daughters"
If your Elizabeth MURRIN married William STONE in 1833, she would only have been 14, which is highly unlikely given the maturity of her signature on the marriage entry. The 1851 census entry reads Tavistock - there's a dot above the 'i'.
Re: Murrin daughters
Posted by David Murian on 23/3/2021, 10:33 am, in reply to "Re: Murrin daughters"
Thanks Deborah. Agree if she had been born 1819, but that was a baptism year so cannot discount she was born earlier. If she was over 21 in 1851 that would put her birth as 1812 or earlier hence the requirement for consent having be crossed through on the marriage register. However, at present cannot find anything better.Pleased you also think the birthplace in 1851 was Tavistock