This is probably going to sound confusing. I was researching Artificer apprentices and came across a document about 1574 it was interesting because it was about Apprentices and I had an ancestor who had an apprentice to help in the home. I was also interested because he served as I think Arms Artificer for the King served in St Budeaux. I cannot find anymore about him as regards to whether he might have had some standing in the community could anyone have had an apprentice or did they have to be bit wealthy. He was a carpenter so could have owned his own business never found he employed anyone to help in the business. Did everyone have to serve in the forces of the time. Just curious and cant find anything about what happened to him and the family.
Re: ARTIFICER
Posted by Brian on 22/10/2020, 10:36 am, in reply to "ARTIFICER"
I did not find your message confusing at all, but interesting. Apprentices were taken on by skilled tradesmen for the express purpose of training them up in a particular trade to eventually attain all the skills required to become a fully recognised tradesman in that particular trade. In that way, any trade would always have a regular availability of skilled men to maintain the particular business. A boy would commence an apprenticeship around age 15, which lasted 7 years, and was equally binding on the apprentice and the tradesman with no 'dropping out' at all. Time served men were generally recognised as highly skilled in their field and capable of creating or fixing anything, With increasing technical reliance, the Navy only began a formal apprenticeship scheme in the early 1900s. They had no proper establishment and consequently used 3 or 4 old wooden dismasted warships moored together as one in Portsmouth harbour to house the boys and train them, collectively named HMS Fisgard. This unsatisfactory 'base' was eventually recognised as unfit for purpose and all such training was transferred to Chatham around 1930 before finally being transferred to a purpose built hutted establishment with a workshop at Torpoint a few years later, also named HMS Fisgard. I have never heard of any apprenticeship relating to helping in the home and can not imagine just what training might be relevant. That sounds more like a bit of mischief! With regard to recruitment in the forces, as far as I am aware, all recruits were volunteers except for Naval Pressgang 'encouragement' and occasions when a Court offered the choice to a convicted man of Prison or enlistment in the Army or Navy. Only in the two world wars was compulsory conscription applied, plus of course, compulsory National Service for two years duration until 1959 or so for men of 18.
Hope this adds a little more for you.
Brian
Re: ARTIFICER
Posted by Alick Lavers on 28/10/2020, 3:05 pm, in reply to "Re: ARTIFICER"
As an ex-Artificer Apprentice in the '50s, I would like to qualify Brian's excellent history of the RN branch and say that HMS Fisgard at Torpoint was a large establishment situated opposite HMS Raleigh, which was a training establishment for Engineering branch ratings (now a combined New Entry establishment). HMS Fisgard had purpose-built workshops, which we called 'The Factory'. This large complex included a foundry, panel-beating facilities, machine workshops and a woodworking workshop (for Shipwrights). Apprentices spent fifteen months in HMS Fisgard before moving to other RN establishments for a further 2 years in order to learn their specialised trades.
Accommodation comprised nearly 40 brick-built dormitory-style 'huts', each housing about 20 apprentices. There was a large dining hall, a NAAFI canteen, a mini-hospital sick bay, extensive playing fields and a large unyielding and unforgiving parade ground.
The site is now a mini industrial trading estate.
I hope this helps Susan in her research.
Re: ARTIFICER
Posted by Susan Murfin on 22/10/2020, 3:00 pm, in reply to "Re: ARTIFICER"
Thank you Brian that was really helpful explained a lot. Think it will be difficult to find out more about what my ancestor did just found little snippets. I have got document re apprenticeship for Elizabeth Greeby being apprenticed to William Anthorn in housewifrey and assumed it was to help in home as his wife was sick and had several children. Really wanted to find out where the family lived but that part is handwritten so not clear. As its not digitised hoping to visit box in Plymouth to have look at original and ask if a member can find where address was. Thanks again.
Re: ARTIFICER
Posted by Karen Newman on 25/10/2020, 9:02 am, in reply to "Re: ARTIFICER"
Poor law apprenticeships (often in farming and other related occupations) were a way of the parish reducing the financial burden placed on it in cases were families were of insuffcient means. Documents often exist in the parish records for these, often just specfying the name of the property owner, and that of the child, and did not necessarily show the duties required. The children were often very young e.g. 7 or 8.
These are different from the 'trade' apprenticeships where an agreement was drawn up between the 'master' and the apprentice's family. It is my understanding that there were only 2 copies of the agreement i.e. one for each party.
Re: ARTIFICER
Posted by Roger Donne on 23/10/2020, 6:37 pm, in reply to "Re: ARTIFICER"
As far as I know, artificer is a term used to described a member of the armed forces skilled in a particular trade. Apprenticeships in the civilian world involved the binding of an apprentice to a master for a fixed term, often on payment of a premium, in order to be taught a particular trade. However, in the 18th/19th century, so-called apprenticeships were used as a means of poor relief. This of involved young people being 'apprenticed' to learn husbandry or housewifery in exchange for board and lodging, and in the worst cases meant that they were little more than farm or domestic servants.