Thanks to Karen, Sally and Brian who responded to my previous post on 6th Jan.
Have followed up your comments and thought I would let you know the results.
Births were at Torrington RG (Winkleigh Sub Dist.)cols. 98 & 99, on 20th August 1897, Annie at 2 am and Richard at 2.15 am (so times would indicate twins) at Cottwood, Ashreigney R.D. Father was Richard Bentley a coachman domestic. Mother Elizabeth Anne Bentley, formerly Murrain. Doesn't help much as cannot find anything meaningful for a Richard (the father).
Deaths were both at Islington R.D., Upper Holloway Sub Dist., both at Holborne Infirmary. Richard was first on 23rd April 1898, aged 8 months. His surname is given as Murrain - son of Elizabeth Ann Murrain a Cook domestic of 10 Southern Street, Clerkenwell. Cause of death Enteritis. Anne was second, on 13th May 1898, aged 9 months. Again surname Murrain, a daughter of Elizabeth Ann Murrain, again a cook domestic of 10 Southern Street, Clerkenwell. Cause of death also Enteritis.
There is nothing to suggest Elizabeth was not married to Richard Bentley (or that he was dead) on the birth cert. but with lack of having found nothing for a Richard, and with the change in the surname between the birth and the death, I would agree it does seem to indicate they were not married.
As for the death of an Elizabeth Bentley in 1941, this was at Totnes RD, Paignton Sub Dist. on 21st August 1941 at Churston Court, Churston Ferrers. She was 82 and said to be of St. Josephs Home, Plymouth, a widow of Eugene Bentley, a farm labourer. Cause of death was Senile Dementia and arterio sclerosis, the informant being A (or a) Mc Court of Churston Court. Again nothing further to help, other than the husband was said to be a Eugene not a Richard. So it might be the right one, simply continuing to give mis-information. or might be someone completely different to the one I have been researching.
No more thoughts so will have be go with the belief she probably wasn't married and just gave a lot of mis-information. Does look as though the 1901 census for Kensington is probably her (cannot find anything else), having moved on after the death of the 2 children, but still being a cook, and also born at Lifton - near enough for me, as well as being close to other family through earlier census years, (at least 1851 - 1901). Whether she was the one who died in 1941 must remain a mystery, even if a strong possibility (in the absence of anything else)
I do think it unlikely that (Elizabeth) Ann married. I note that her 'husband's' first name is that of her father, Richard. And the registration of the deaths of her two children in her maiden name also indicates no marriage.
Ancestry has the admission and discharge records for Annie and her children. The surname is shown as Murrain/Murran/Murrian, across the various records.
The little boy Richard has the middle initial B, both on admission and on discharge (noting his death). The B may stand for Bentley.
A McCourt is probably Agnes, one of the Sisters of Mercy at St Josephs in 1939.
Strange though that the birth certificate of both children registers them as Bentley, father Richard and mother as Elizabeth Ann Bentley (formerly Murrain).
Both birth certificates identify William Richard Josling as the Registrar.
I looked on the 1891 and 1901 census for Ashreigney to see if there was any sign locally of Richard Bentley, but none. However, was interested that on both, at "School House" is William Richard Josling. In 1891 his occupation is School Master, but, in 1901, it changed to "Registrer of Births & Deaths". He is clearly "local" so one would expect he would have known Elizabeth and would it not be surprising if, in making out the Birth Certificate, he did so in a way he would normally do for a married couple. There is nothing on the Certificates to suggest the children were "base children" of Elizabeth even if the father is named or am I assuming too much??
If it was Annie and she had recently moved to the area (who knows?), then Mr Josling probably accepted her word that she was married. I don't think actual proof of marriage was required.
Did you know that the children were baptised in Milton Abbott? Place of abode is Metherell or Wetherell, Milton Abbott.On FMP.
Thanks Karen. Elizabeth Anne Bentley, mother, Cottwood, Ashreigney was the informant.
Didn't know the children were baptised in Milton Abbott living at Metherell (where Elizabeth's father [Richard] was living in the 1901, 1891, & 1881 census years). Have looked at FMP but despite simply putting in a Search in the name Richard Bentley (or Murrain) right through various options to browsing (the over 1000 entries) the Devon Parish registers for circa 1897, cannot find anything. How did you search to find them ??
Was quite interested to find Josling - even more so that his second christian name was Richard. Set my brain on overdrive as to what the (even remote) implications of what this (yet another Richard) might possibly suggest !!!!!.
My apologies, David. They were baptised on 18 Oct 1897.
I should have said that FMP have the baptisms indexed as BENTTEY. The horizontal line at the top of the T goes across the L as well. However, the date of birth is shown as 20th August 1897.
Just seems something odd going on. The births was August 1897 outside Ashreigney where the births were then registered about a month later on 27th Sept. But the baptisims were then, some 4 weeks later, at Milton Abbott (though she could have gone back to her "home"/"family" parish to get them baptised,) but "P" so presumably privately, suggesting they were not expected to survive.
The baptisms are, again, in the parents name of Richard & Elizabeth Ann Bentley, still perperuating the apparent myth of a marriage which cannot be found.
Yet by April/May 1898 the 3 of them are in Clerkenwell/Holborne, some fair distance to go with two very young children, apparently already not in the best of health, with her as a single mother who has reverted to the Murrain surname.
In the absence of being able to find a marriage, I feel I have to accept she was telling fibs all the time, except when they died, but then resorted to Bentley again in all the later sources.
A puzzle which there seems no likelyhood of now resolving, but I would thank you most sincerely for all your interest and help with my brick wall, which will have to remain as such.
I think it likely that Annie was working in Cottwood or went there to give birth (any relatives in or around that area at the time?), though I would have thought the parish officials would not have been too happy with the latter option if she had no means of support.
She may well have expected the father to marry her, which might account for the slight 'delay' in registering the birth (though the longest in my tree is 6 months and I have never found the marriage!).
Perhaps she went off to London with the children, following the father (if he was a coachman then he would have 'ferried' his employer about), and then it all came to nothing.
Having had the children baptised as Bentley, then on her return to the area, she would have continued to use her 'married' name.
I can only find one Richard Bentley who is a coachman (I have looked for 'groom and 'ostler' as well), born in Enfield c1825, which makes him older than her father. I think he dies in 1898 (St Geo Hanover Sq)but I can find no connection to Devon.
There is a Richard Bentley who dies in 1898 in Islington, born c 1860. I cannot find anything on him (e.g. place of birth, and without that, there is little chance of pinning him down on a census), other than the workhouse records which have him as a labourer (b c1862/3 if it the same one).
All conjecture on my part! Good luck with your search.
