Posted by PhilJSmith on January 11, 2023, 11:04 pm
I am guessing that, because of the excess licensing costs for HD channels beyond HD1, broadcasters are turning off HD2’s that drive no revenue — especially those not feeding a translator. Over the past few months 93.9 WLIT and 107.5 WGCI have pared down to just HD1, and although I can’t lock HD from 100.3 WSHE tonight I *think* they dumped HD2. In the past 96.7 WSSR Joliet dropped HD2 which had 1340 WJOL.
Are these HD2’s disappearing in any surrounding markets too? I know that Milwaukee, Detroit and Indy have (or had) some, but there are no listings that can be trusted as up-to-date to check.
Re: HD2 channels disappeared from several FM stations
iHeart only has WRNW HD2 (WISN-AM simulcast) in Milwaukee now. They only use HD2 for translators, simulcasts, and 2 networks and occasionally for things like shifting formats to HD2.
WSHE had no HD-2 for a longtime until the WMVP simulcast.
WDRV has HD-2 (Deep Tracks) it should be simulcasting on 96.9 HD2 as well (They still ID it) but it's been down for almost a year. No idea why, but I believe it's technical trouble.
EMF tends to use their HD to it's fullest. 97.9 has HD2, HD3 and HD4. 103.9 has HD2 and HD3
Re: HD2 channels disappeared from several FM stations
iHeart has been cutting back on HD2 nationwide -- they previously had a soft AC "Breeze" format on HD2s around the country that's now gone.
The Breeze had been carried on WXXM-HD3 here in Madison, along with a rotating set of formats on WXXM-HD2 that frequently had technical issues (my favorite was the 2 months of dead air for a Christmas format; the song listings faithfully updated, but no songs were ever audible).
Both of those are gone and WXXM is now down to just HD1, but iHeart's other Madison stations continue to offer HD2 stations.
WMAD-HD2 airs iHeart's Coffee House channel. I would listen more often, but the frequent HD signal dropouts in Madison are too annoying to put up with.
WIBA-HD2 feeds an oldies format to a translator on 100.9 FM. On a related note, it's the only HD2/3 station in Madison to show up in the ratings.
WZEE has Air1 on HD3 to feed a EMF-owned translator. WZEE's HD2 inexplicably carried a classical music format for years (classical music is already offered on WPR’s WERN and WERN-HD2), but recently switched to iHeart's crooners channel "The Standard" (https://www.iheart.com/live/the-standard-6784/). The HD2 station image updated to show "The Standard," but the displayed song title, album image and artist info are still fed from the old classical format, so you hear Sinatra and see "Toccata and Fugue in D Minor" for the song title. Engineering at the iHeart cluster in Madison seems like it's been a struggle for a while.
Audacy has two HD2 stations in Madison - Channel Q on WOLX-HD2 (Channel Q just laid off their air staff last month) and "Live from Studio M" on WMMM-HD2.
I often check out the Chicago HD2 stations when I'm in town, and got a good idea of why they are virtually non-existent in the ratings -- too many signal drop-outs!
I happened to be driving back from Chicago while the Illini were on WLS a few weeks back and thought I'd try listening to them on WLS-HD2. I only made it maybe 6 or 7 miles from downtown on the Eisenhower (didn't even make it to Cicero!) before WLS-HD2 kept dropping out and I had to switch over to WLS-AM.
I've had similar experiences trying to listen to the Loop on WKQX-HD2 -- the signal cuts out so often (and takes so long to come back), that it's just too annoying to listen to.
Re: HD2 channels disappeared from several FM stations
On the contrary, most of the HD2's carry into Dupage county or farther when mobile in a car. The rough cut off for reliable signals is Rt 59 along 88. V103 is the worst and is not reliable West of 355. To the North most stations have HD up to Gurnee or into Kenosha County. Not throwing shade on you, but your antenna or the sensitivity on your radio might not be optimal! Car radios are not the best quality these days either compared to past.
Reason the HDx signals never rate?
Programming sucks (network feeds or run a HD out of closet). Niche formats (religious, ethnic... which most translators are or HD2 were in Chicago & surrounding areas). People have NO clue what HD is or these exist. Recent research I seen, < than 40% knew what HD was. Not everyone has new cars with HD capability and portable radios are nil with HD built in.
Z
Re: HD2 channels disappeared from several FM stations
Yeah, sorry, Z -- I shouldn't have oversimplified, I know there are many other barriers to folks listening to these HD2/HD3 stations, but I do wonder if the signal issues are a big part of it, too.
The relatively small number of cars with HD radios is certainly a much bigger problem (I read it was up to half of new cars, but still only about 20% of cars on the road as of 2019). But if the people that do have HD radios try it out and it's glitchy with poor programming, it's not like there's going to be a lot of good buzz to get others to check it out.
I'm late to the party, finally got my first car with HD radio just a couple years ago and recently a second car with HD radio. Both are Toyotas with the little shark fin antennas and both have the same issues with HD dropouts, but analog reception is fine. It's fairly clear what's happening since the dropouts regularly happen in the same spots (on roads where there are spots shadowed by taller buildings or overpasses between my car and the transmitter), but the analog signal is still there. The terrain issues are fairly predictable, but other times, tropospheric openings can wreck HD reception, too, as distant stations on adjacent frequencies blot out the weak power HD signals.
But, as I say, I'm late to the party. Consumer Reports wrote the following way back in 2014, putting HD Radio in the category of "don't bother" car features: "HD radio. It's advertised as having better fidelity than conventional AM/FM signals, but we've seen little benefit on the road. ... We've found that the signals tend to come and go, resulting in annoying changes in sound quality."
I think ilgrant mentioned further down that they were suprised I had issues with WKQX-HD2 since they have a relatively powerful HD2 signal. I'm surprised the Loop never shows up in the ratings! Before it was sold out from under Cumulus, it was around a 2 share 12+, I think? Certainly a lot of that listening must have been in cars (some of which have HD radios), but I don't think I've ever seen WKQX-HD2 even show up in the ratings.
It's interesting to me that stations that had substantial audiences while on analog FM, like the Loop or to a lesser extent, Audacy's alternative and country stations in NYC, saw their audiences basically vanish when they moved these formats to HD2 signals (country is at a 0.3 on WXBK-HD2, alternative on WINS-HD2 is putting up Blutarsky numbers).
Mostly, it just makes me sad. I know I'm a radio dork, but I was genuinely excited to finally have a car with HD radio. Sad to say, the technology just isn't very good. Between the glitchy HD radio listening experience and the spiral that radio in general is in right now, there's not a lot to recommend listening to HD radio over streaming music on your phone.
Re: HD2 channels disappeared from several FM stations
I have forgot the details, perhaps Jeremy can pop in and help us, but the HD power is limited to a small percentage of the analog power to prevent the analog signal being degraded. BIG issue with running a hybrid system. If they flash cut to a all digital system like DAB in Europe, this could have been avoided. Also, when the FM HD and TV digital signals were turned on, the noise floor of the ALL bands increased like insane. One of my Ham friends ran a test and it was insane. I read research that a local University did and it was the same. Just piss poor execution of the bad technology.
Sadly, people are engrained for FM, they have no appetite to learn HDx. When the loop went away, if they actually did a campaign to inform and educate people to listen to WKQX-HD2, I can *assure* you there would be a million questions why they are hearing alternative and not harder rock. (Flash Cut as I mentioned above). Why would people go buy (if they can find it) an HD radio to listen to the LOOP with its teeth pulled on a hard drive? Better off listening online or SXM and remember the past as memories. 🤷🏻♂️
Z
Re: HD2 channels disappeared from several FM stations
101.1’s HD signal is among the best in Chicago as far as coverage.
Here is a problem. Translators
In Milwaukee, there is a translator on 101.1 for 540 WAUX. That signal’s fringe area overlaps with WKQX’s fringe area. These translators usually go farther. As a result, more interference and HD signals will drop more. FCC could care less
There is also a translator in Janesville on 101.1 for WFAW. That one is on the tower with WSJY, which puts a good signal into parts of Lake and McHenry. Minor enhancement and you’ll get a drop.
Polnet (WPJX-AM has had dead air since December while the translator continues programming) is bumping WKTA’s 95.9 into Lake County. They put a directional null away from WERV, but didn’t for WRIT Milwaukee. FCC approved it no problem. I expect to lose WRIT’s HD signal when that hits the air.
The translators cause a ton of interference and HD is usually the first to drop
Re: HD2 channels disappeared from several FM stations
And while I’m at it, the FCC is an absolute joke for letting this happen while these companies let the AM signals run dead air (Which breaks the rule that a translator cannot originate programming) FCC ignores it. The FM band is a disaster because of this. They do not care.
Re: HD2 channels disappeared from several FM stations
WKQX was a great signal from Day 1. 97.9 as well. Both went on at the same time under Emmis. I can still get 97.9 on my Sony tuner even with a first adjacent translator in town.
Initially the rule was for 1% of the station's power output. The FCC relaxed HD power rules and they went on I believe 4 or 5%. I think those two stations might have been the first to use that power level.
Most of the Sears Tower was redone in 2020-2021. iHeart for example has all new HD equipment now. WGCI's HD used to never make it up here. 1% power. Now they do, because with the new equipment, they have the 5%. Same deal with B96. Used to never be able to lock it up here. Now it is possible.
You can usually tell if a station has newer equipment if it just displays the call letters or the station name on the PAD. No -FM.
on January 11, 2023, 11:04 pm