Tom Riche and Lucero's Jaws of Working Class K-9
interesting dogs./..training. .. oops no video seen next thread V
Posted by Edog on April 10, 2013, 3:37:27
Videos are in the next thread bellow this one. |
what are some POSITIVES and NEGATIVES....?
Posted by Edog on April 10, 2013, 17:09:40, in reply to "Here are the videos"
what are some POSITIVES and NEGATIVES....that this type of training can create... |
Please include at least one of each in your post.
Are these dogs serious?
Think they will do sport?
Think they will protect you in a real situation?
Will all of the targeting and sleeve /suit work add or subtract from a real pp dog?
Do you like or dislike this training style...dogs...why?
Re: what are some POSITIVES and NEGATIVES....?
Posted by tim-k10dog on April 11, 2013, 2:53:10, in reply to "what are some POSITIVES and NEGATIVES....?"
I will start with the positives. Its seems like they are trying to produce a trained dog, not a vicious one. Which is good for the dogs image. |
Over all I thought the training was very old school and not quite complete. no real pressure applied to dogs and very choreographed .
with the right work they seemed to have the potential to do all of the styles of work.
Don't like this style of training. when you don't really test the dogs you give the owners the IMPRESSION that the dog will protect them when it probably won't.
Thanks Tim k10 and Nate...
Posted by Edog on April 12, 2013, 16:43:03, in reply to "Re: what are some POSITIVES and NEGATIVES....?"
I agree Nate my buddy had one (backyard bred) no real ped.... but was THE BEST ALL AROUND DOG THAT I HAVE SEEN TO DATE!!!! and I am talking Bandogs, Mals, Dutches, APBT's with pedigree's up the ying yang, AB's GSD's ...etc. |
Bought him for a few hundred buck from a house behind the .99cent store...lol
I agree with you for the most part Tim-k10..
for me too much whip and too many bites (but it is for video purposes and maybe they wanted to showcase the biting in some of the videos) but I think these dogs would bite you and mess you up good if the situation arised... I like this type of training way better than most club sport chicken dancing though. I helped train a dog in a very similar fashion and the results were very serious dog (not a KILL someone serious but #### you up for sure serious) that had to be taught to target (the owner wanted this) and bite the equipment if you wanted to work him safely in different situations ... do scenarios... balance him out a bit... etc.. and emphasis was placed on control and obedience as he really wanted to bite your ass for real.. worked a lot on his on off switch with his wife and daughter handling him.
Nice little pissed off dog with good control in the end.
As for these guys I like the fact that they are putting the control and OB first and use compulsion to make it solid... not sporty but effective in my opinion. there are issues that can arise as a result of too much compulsion... but I think the results far out weigh the down side.
So Positives are I like the over al consistent attitudes / conviction of the dogs, I like the OB / control that they are putting on the dogs,
(everyone's OB could always be better but it was good) I like the use of surprise scenarios in some of the clips, I like the use of walls , obstacles , shotguns....lol in a more realistic way.
The Negatives for ME are the training borderlines on sport with all of the sends and sleeve work, could put more pressure on the dogs but there was some.. again only talking about these videos.. and too many bites are given IMO I would like to see more muzzle stuff (and they may do it .. just not in these vids) .. but the end results looks good (6.5 out of 10) to me but that -3.5 could mean your life.
I also think they would transfer into Schutzhund or PSA with not much extra training.
Different strokes for different folks.
The funny thing is nobody else on here touched this post other then you Tim...lol
Maybe they are all trying to refrain from negative talk / critique of video on this board...ROTFLMAO!!! but to me it is a telling sign for sure.
Re: Thanks Tim k10 and Nate...
Posted by tim-k10dog on April 12, 2013, 18:11:04, in reply to "Thanks Tim k10 and Nate..."
I like a little sport in my dog because I want biting without the the defense aggression. To me this gives clear headedness . In some bandogs the defense gets them to close to flight. Lastly in real situations when a dog puts his mouth on you most people panic and are trying to get away from the dog. So we really need a lot less dog than we think. definitely more muzzle work|
Re: Here are the videos
Posted by nate on April 10, 2013, 19:24:33, in reply to "Here are the videos"
When I was 15 tricked my mom into buying me a "pit bull." I called it an am staff. Best dog I ever had still chasing his equal. Sorry to go off topic.|
Re: Here are the videos
Posted by MaTi on April 12, 2013, 17:50:15, in reply to "Here are the videos"
I didn't have time to sit down and watch all the clips until now. |
There's definately some good work here and I wouldn't call it sport per say but it is exploiting desire in the dogs.
I like that last little dog.
You can see by his shit eatin grin in the end....he does work hard. He wants to bite and he means it..but he gives compliance. I appreciate the calmness on the verge of exploding.
Good example of that I jus wish a nice dog like that had a little more leg on him. He's cool though.
Nothing over the top, nothing really exaggerated and the dog over the fence gets two thumbs up from me!
The handler help really is unnessesary but I think it makes the handler feel more comfortable. The dogs look pretty dang stable which is nice. Wish a few had some more athleticism and speed but they are bully dogs, that's what they are. The white dog n fawn dog are pretty quick though!
Am I trippin or at 2:10 does the dog not turn around before the command. Is the audio out of synch?? or is the dog reading the decoy from anticipation? nope its the synch i see.
I definately like the control. The silent but deadly style is just as effective. Some of these dogs are really focused and clear.
at 3:46 you see what all the control does for the grip. 5:00 nice dog nice work solid nerves and taking things seriously. Some of the work these guys are doing is pretty good. Bringing out a lot of confidence in the dogs=good thing.
Snopes ob isnt pretty and sporty it's that classic compulsion look sport people frown on, and I admit it doesn't look like the dog is stoked on what it's doing...but the dog deos perform that's for sure. He is sleeve focused and I woulnd't say he wants to hurt the man.
man that was close at 1:30 I wonder if the furry has dog aggression lol
Not that the dog has to be happy, but some enthusiasm or desire for the work should be there. I was all compulsion on my 1st dogs and the ob looked just like this often.
The control is a plus and for apbt this really shows how compliant they can be contrary to their desire to bite.
Gotta give these guys props for putting time in..I'm sure they are doing their best and progressing.
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E-Dog - 2012 WPBTCA National Championships
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