The bitesuit can also be used as a REAL testing tool, if used properly as a test and very infrequently...When you guys use the suit in your IPO training, is it a hidden suit?
If you take a dog that has never even seen a bite suit, and test him in a suit, the suit is real, as real as a hidden suit.
Hidden equipment can also become as NON-real as a visible sleeve can if one really thinks about it.
There are also non-classical prey dogs that will engage people, and not show defensive signs, prey coupled with strong nerves and aggression, is not always play..although those dogs are very rare.
I have no problems with IPO, but to say it is the easiest to transfer to PP may or may not be true.
The sport doesnt matter much, the type of dogs matter more I think, and the training, any good NVBK,KNPV dog from serious people will most likely put a real bad hurting on someone, even if he has never been put into defense. Hell many dogs from good bloodlines dont even need training to protect,guard, or bite...they need training NOT to bite... if you have a dog that is bred to have propensity to want to fight people, and is civil, the sport is not going to matter.
I can also say I dont agree that a PP trainer has to compete in a sport at the highest level, and that validation is not something that everyone is out there trying to get. Some people just do not have the interest in competing in a dogsport. Who really cares about validation, unless it is to get more respect from people, or more clients? I dont train dogs to get validation from people.
Validation can also come from the dog acutally doing what the training was intended to do, which may not be sport related at all. I trained up alot of PP dogs, I never competed in a sport, and although it is true that very very few PP dogs ever get really tested in real life, I have had more than a few that I have owned and trained that have validated themselves very well.
Like I said I agree with what you are saying mostly, but there are always exceptions.
what is impressive in PP is that the dog performs for real when needed, engages powerfully, sinks the teeth in, and stays in the fight, no matter where that is coming from prey/fight, defense, or even rage... Real PP is not really a standard of what is impressive in training. It is not about being impressive to dog trainers, it is about being effective when called upon..There are great herders out there as well, that simply show almost zero signs of defense, even when under pressure and pain, it is fight.
Although I do admit I like to see dogs that are impressively trained, there are a whole lot of dogs that will take someone out, that are not impressively trained, like a good top level real deal sport dog is.
With the right dogs, it often does not take much training in the bite work, it can be simply training the dog NOT to bite.
I like to do bitework, I like to be impressed, that does not mean that a dog that is not all that impressive at training by dog training standards will not make an proficient protection dog.
I have worked quite a few dogs that take the training as 100% serious, they know what the equipment is and try to bypass it, get around it, and dogs that are only safe to work in a full suit, by experienced decoys/agitators.
A friend of mine has a dog like this, that I did put training on later after he got a "street dog" foundation from the ever talked about "street trainers". I calmed him down and was able to get him slightly more focused on the equipment, attempted to get more balance, for training purposes, becuase the owner wanted to compete at PP events (mostly sport without the sport type events). that dog was not safe to really work, was not impressive with his grip, or his entries, and was certainly not a calm dog, but an excellent PP dog, if you tried to work him in just a sleeve, it was 50/50 you would be using that sleeve to try to keep the dog off of your balls, or your stomach. He also knew what the suit was, and would try to get around it, often tried to nose his way under the jacket.
An impressive dog, not really by most peoples standards, but he sure as hell impressed the people he has put in the hospital when he was used for real..
training is training, competing is competing, having and training a dog to really engage real people, can be compatible with lots of training, and even sport competiton, but neither is really neccessary with the right dogs, if the people involved are only interested in having a realiable PP dog.
here is some footage of the dog not really impressive, but anyone that chooses to put themselves in a situation where he would be allowed to attack them, would be very sorry.
He is the second dog in this clip, (NOT the malinois, another dog I would never choose to mess with in real life, that also has no sport titles, trained by a good trainer that has no real desire to compete in dogsports, and I dont think ever titled a dog.)The dog is not dragging the guy to the ground to play with him or the suit, you'll just have to trust me on that one. And the mal isnt trying to play with the suit either, again you'll just have to trust me on that one. Both dogs were trained by trainers that never competed in any sports, and both dogs have performed very well in real occurances. That is thier validation, not whether they are impressive to dog trainers, or anyone else.
here is 360 work, a video that usually gets a terrible reaction from sport people, telling me how stupid it looks and how ghetto it is, I know the dog is basically posted and somewhat nutty, but he will certainly bite for real and has several times. Impressive, not really, but the goal was not to impress people, or get any validation from anyone other than guys that the dog needed to bite, or scare off with an active alert, which he has done, and it has validated him.
Validation? by who? for who? and for what? that is the quesion.. Dogs dont need validation, people often do though, it feels nice to be validated for sure But I know of at least a dozen people personally that have never competed in any sport that can put together and excellent protection dog that can be counted on for real, and I am sure there are 100's more that I dont know.
Again not knocking sport or anything you said, just offering another opinion, from an un-validated person.
Thresholds are a whole nuther topic, why do people that are just training a dog for protection really need to talk about various thresholds really, if they are not breeding working dogs, or involved the dogs in rigorous stressful training programs, I love to talk thresholds personally, but if I have a dog that will bite a passive person, with or without equipment, and will also fight a person that is fighting back, in various settings and environments, and the dog is controllable enough and handled responsibly to keep innocent people safe, what do I really need to talk about? what more do I need for PP? Do I care if the dog can undergo the stresses of rigorous training programs to be able to compete at high sport level, not really, if PPD is my only concern.
E-Dog - 2012 WPBTCA National Championships
The time when screech owls and Bandogges howl and spirits walk and ghosts break up their graves.
Act I, Scene IV of William Shakespeare's "King Henry VI"