AG and MM Board

Thompson submachine guns

Posted by Dean McNulty on February 17, 2019, 11:27 pm

I have a legally registered Thompson M1A1 submachine gun with 204 TS Solomon placed on the left side of the weapon. Wondering if the armed guards assigned to liberty ships were issued Thompsons?

I am thinking the 204 is a rack number and was assigned to troop ship Solomon? This weapon was amnesty registered in 1968 but would love to know why someone put 204 TS Solomon on the weapon. Thank you.

Re: Thompson submachine guns

Posted by bob taylor on February 18, 2019, 11:41 am, in reply to "Thompson submachine guns"

There's a ready market for these weapons
in Cicero Ill. Just say Joey sent you.
And might I say this carries a certain
amount of risk so you've got to be
nutty to venture there.

Re: Thompson submachine guns

Posted by Dean McNulty on February 18, 2019, 12:16 pm, in reply to "Re: Thompson submachine guns"

Umm, not sure what your are trying to tell me except for implying I have an illegal weapon? This is a legally owned machine gun on a Form 4 tax paid. This is a historic weapon from ww2 and thought this organization might help me regarding if armed guards assigned to liberty ships were assigned Thompson submachine guns as my weapon might have been from the Solomon Juneau liberty ship.

The weapon was amnesty registered with the Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms in 1968 and assigned an IRS tax number for the serial number was removed. On the left side of the weapon, it has a neatly stamped 204 TS Solomon and that is why I believe it might have come from this ship.

Any help would be appreciated.

Best,

Dean

Re: Thompson submachine guns

Posted by bob taylor on February 22, 2019, 9:01 am, in reply to "Re: Thompson submachine guns"

Hi Dean
It may surprise you to know that in the
dim and distant past I once fired a
Thompson sub machine gun.
During my initial training in the Naval
Air Service in 1943 a few days were
allotted to small arms use. This included
the standard navy rifle, throwing hand
grenades and firing a few rounds from
the Thompson. This had a round magazine
but think there was also a vertical one
available. It's been so long ago I can't
recall how it felt during firing.
Best wishes
Bob

Re: Thompson submachine guns

Posted by bob taylor on February 21, 2019, 11:28 am, in reply to "Re: Thompson submachine guns"

So sorry to dismay you both with my weak
humor.Perhaps with a little practice I'll
be up to the level of Seinfeld.
In the meantime I hope no one else has
the temerity to make light of your gun
culture.
I must say that Ron does a good job of
searching the Liberty ship records Dean.
Bob.

Re: Thompson submachine guns

Posted by Dean McNulty on February 21, 2019, 7:57 pm, in reply to "Re: Thompson submachine guns"

Bob, I was honestly trying to do research on my Thompson and was excited to reach out to this Board with my question.

I would never have the temerity to make a guest feel uncomfortable when they are being earnest and trying to further history and recognize the importance of the MM and AG during WW2..

Have the feeling I am not very welcomed here, so guess this old 101st Airborne Vet will bug out.

Cheers,

Dean "Mac" McNulty

Re: Thompson submachine guns

Posted by Dean McNulty on February 18, 2019, 1:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Thompson submachine guns"

I should add, I love history and appreciate what the armed guard did during the war. I plan to hand my Thompson down to my son when I pass and just a "care taker" of the weapon right now. No one is going to be in trouble if they "accidentally took" this weapon from a ship as it was amnesty registered in 1968.

With your network, was hoping some of the "old vets" might be able to shed light on what small arms were assigned on board regarding the liberty/troop ships.

Thank you again, and thought it would be important to shed light on why I am asking my question.

Re: Thompson submachine guns

Posted by Ron Carlson on February 20, 2019, 11:35 pm, in reply to "Re: Thompson submachine guns"

Dean,

First of all, please ignore Bob Taylor's comment, as it was a weak attempt at humor, something that he employs from time to time on this message board.

This topic has come up on the message board in the past. As I recall the consensus among the Armed Guard veterans who contributed to the discussion was that Armed Guard officers were issued their own side arms (i.e., revolvers) and that while on security detail at pier-side or at anchor, Armed Guard sailors would be issued either .45 or .38 revolvers, or rifles, for the duration of the watch. (Rifles were also sometimes used at sea to fire at floating mines, according to some recollections.) There was never a mention of submachine guns so far as I recall.

Keep in mind that the primary purpose of the Armed Guard was to provide gunnery protection for merchant ships at sea. Most Armed Guard sailors were trained to served as gunners, commonly using 3-inch and 5-inch guns and 20mm. mounted machine guns. The Armed Guard sailors were really not "guards" in the sense of a security force guarding ships in port, although, yes, they did stand gangway and anchor watches on their own ships. There would have been relatively little need of or opportunity to use submachine guns.

Any Armed Guard veterans in the sound of my voice, please correct me if necessary.

Ron Carlson, Webmaster
Armed Guard / Merchant Marine website
www.armed-guard.com

Re: Thompson submachine guns

Posted by Dean McNulty on February 21, 2019, 12:29 am, in reply to "Re: Thompson submachine guns"

Ron, thanks for responding back to my question on small arms issued on liberty ships. I would think the only reason a submachine gun would be issued would be in case of attempted boarding or security while docked. If my particular weapon was assigned to the Solomon Juneau, it would have been when it was used as a troop ship but not sure if that would make any difference.

Most likely will never know why someone stamped 204 TS Solomon on the side of the Thompson, could be the name of a gentleman that owned the weapon in the past and liked the number 204.

It would be interesting to see if anyone else has information on this subject but again really appreciate you responding back to this thread.

Regarding Bob, I also have a good sense of humor, so all is good with that, just wanted to let him know this was a serious question and nothing illegal!! Most folks don't even realize you can own these type of weapons regarding registered NFA weapons.

Best,

Dean.

Re: Thompson submachine guns

Posted by Ron Carlson on February 21, 2019, 12:23 am, in reply to "Re: Thompson submachine guns"

Dean,

Further to your specific questions, the Liberty ship SOLOMON JUNEAU apparently was one of some 200 Liberty ships (out of a total Liberty ship fleet of 2,700+ ships)that served as a troop ship. (Most Liberty ships carried cargo only.) However a troop ship would not have been designated "TS." If a merchant ship, as was SOLOMON JUNEAU, she would have been designated "SS" for steam ship but with no further designation as a troop ship. If a commissioned naval vessel a ship would have been "USS" for United States Ship. And many large, purpose-built troops ships were designated "USAT," for US Army Transport. (The Army actually had more vessels in World War II than did the Navy, but most Army vessels were non-combatants.) So I cannot conclusively interpret "204 TS Solomon." It is possible there is a link with SOLOMON JUNEAU although I would be inclined to think the full name of the ship would have been used rather than a partial name, particularly just a "first" name so to speak. It is also conceivable that Armed Guard sailors on troop ships might have been issued submachine guns for some reason. But that also seems a reach since the only time Armed Guard personnel would have used smaller weapons was for gangway or anchor watch, for which rifles or revolvers would have served.

A final speculative thought: a few troop ships, including Liberty troop ships, carried German or Italian POWs on voyages from Europe back to the US; I have no idea whether SOLOMON JUNEAU served in that capacity. For those vessels there would have been a need for more serious ship-board security and thus perhaps for more serious weapons. Most POWs were probably quite happy to be out of the war and likely not inclined to violence, but ya never know.

That's the best I can offer.

Ron Carlson, Webmaster
Armed Guard / Merchant Marine website
www.armed-guard.com

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