Posted by Ron Carlson on December 6, 2010, 10:31 am
I have been communicating directly with the daughter of a deceased Armed Guard veteran and have been able to supply her with some useful information. But in exchanging information with her, several questions have arisen that other veterans reading this message board may be able to answer.
(1) When an Armed Guard crew completed its deployment on a merchant ship and was relieved by a new crew, did the Armed Guard crewmen return immediately and directly to their assigned Armed Guard Center? Or were you given leave, possibly long enough to make a trip to your home or elsewhere?
(2) If you were initially assigned to one Armed Guard Center (Treasure Island, let's say) and your voyage ended on the East Coast, would you be sent back to San Francisco or would you be reassigned to a different AG Center, either Brooklyn or New Orleans?
(3) While at an Armed Guard Center awaiting assignment to another vessel, how did you spend your time? In training? Were you assigned work at the Center and, if so, was much of it "busy work"? Did you have extra liberty? If so, for how long at a time? I would think keeping hundreds or thousands of idle Armed Guard sailors occupied would have been quite a challenge.
(4) Assuming there were no unusual circumstances affecting you (for example an injury or illness), how long did you typically spend at an Armed Guard Center before being assigned to your next ship?
Inquiring minds want to know. Or at least one inquiring mind.
Ron Carlson, Webmaster
Re: Armed Guard questions
Posted by John Haynes on December 6, 2010, 9:54 pm, in reply to "Armed Guard questions"
Ron, my experience in the Armed Guard was limited to only one voyage, i.e. The Murmansk Run of Convoy PQ-13. I went directly from boot camp to Little Creek for two weeks of gunnery training, then to the AG Center in Brooklyn for 2 days then assigned to the SS Eldena. I had been in the Navy less than 6 weeks at that time, so I can’t answer all your questions. (1) Upon completion of the voyage we reported to the Armed Guard Center in Brooklyn and were then given two weeks leave to go home and return to the Center for the next assignment. (2) Did not experience. (3) While at the Center there was some training like fire and boat drills, films, physical training, etc. We also stood watches, but mostly it was very relaxed and liberty was freely given. After being back at the Center a bit over two weeks, I got reassigned into Aircraft Mechanics School at NAS Norfolk. That ended my career in the Armed Guard. John Haynes
Re: Armed Guard questions
Posted by Fran Kent on December 6, 2010, 2:02 pm, in reply to "Armed Guard questions"
My AG experience began at the AGC Brooklyn, where I was assigned to a ship, a Liberty, in Norfolk. Va. Returning to Norfolk after a cruise to the Mediterranean, I was detached and given 30 days' leave, with orders to report back to Brooklyn. There I was assigned to a tanker then at Marcus Hook, Pa., which after calling at ports in the Caribbeean, the Mediterranean and the Pacific I left in Panama for minor surgery. From the hospital I went to a Pacific-side receiving station that sent me to a Panama-based Army transport, which some time later put me off in New orleans with orders to go on leave (30 days) and report to the AGC NOLa. There I was assigned to another tanker, at the time in NOLa. She spent the rest of the war in the Pacific and, when it was over, put me off in NOLa. I was given 30 days leave and told to report afterward to the receiving station at Shoemaker, Calif., for assignment to the fleet. I did.
2.) No experience.
3.) I wasn't in Brooklyn long enough to do much but keep an eye on the bulletin board for notice of assignment. The few eveningss I spent exploring Brooklyn and Manhattan bars.
4.) Only at the AGC NOLa did I stay long enough to be given something to do. Because I could type (I was a radioman), I was asssigned to the personnel office, where I performed routine clerical cheers. Privileges included early chow (otherwise the lines were endless) and, thanks to access to a typewriter, a (forged) liberty card.
Ron, a good posting and I enjoyed reading the answers to your question. There is a reasonable pattern in our experiences. Two trips out of AGC in Brooklyn. A second Liberty through the Panama Canal to the Pacific. Then assigned to TI for my third Liberty out to Pacific and back to Seattle. Then a MS for two fast rips to Manila,, the second after the war was over so it was pleasant. As to liberty or leaves I did cross the country 5 times in day coaches the last train ride was back to Boston for discharge. Did not get to hang around the AGC too long.. As to thosee who made the Murmansk run l would like to think that they read The Cruel Sea by Monsarrat. I mention this because I am cleaning up my library and reread portions of this great book dealing with North Atlantic convoys.
Ron, I started out in Armed Guard School in Gulf Port, Miss, upon Graduation was assigned to New Orleans and recieved my first assingment to a ship in Georgia, I was only on that ship a few weeks due to illness, then was assigned to Brooklyn. Caught my first ship there and made a trip to England, returned to Brooklyn, and got a 4 day week-end pass, I went home on it to Wi. I stayed on the same ship and we had a voyage to Scotland, came back to Booklyn and got a 1o leave, and were told to tell our parents they wouldn't hear from us for up to 6 months, we knew we were on our way to Murmansk, when we returned we were given a 2 week leave. On returning to the Brooklyn I was assigned to a Troop transport. One trip with soldiers to France, and back to Brooklyn loaded up another 10000 troops and went to Italy,the War was over on the way to Italy so after spending 3 weeks in Naples Italy, we were ordered to the Phillipines, the war was over in Japan as we pulled into the harbor in Northern Phillipines, headed for home and pulled into New Orleans where the ship was dismantled. When I was attached to Brooklyn, we spent most of our free time on Liberty in NY. we had to stand watches on the ship at different times. Also were taken to a Gunnery range on Long Island where we praticed with the 20 Millimeter. I loved going to England and Scotland. Beautiful country and the people were really good to us. Regards. Gerry Burr
Ron, Fresh out of Boot camp, Sampson, N.Y. I went to Armed Guard school at Camp Shelton, Norfolk. Then to the A.G.C. Brooklyn. Was only there two days before being assigned to the SS Alexander Martin in New York. Well at the center for this short time I was kept busy with night vision test, clothing update,airplane identification and etc. No liberty. The ship was loading supplies for Africa when we boarded. Did get liberty in New york. Kept busy on board the ship checking guns and equipment. Loading munitions. Getting acquainted with our gun assignments and ship. Life boat assignment. Sleeping quarters and etc. This was all new to me. Left N. Y. and joined Convoy UGS-48 at Norfolk July 14,1944. To the Medlterranean and around Africa then back to the USA by South America and to Philadelphia. Half of the crew left the ship for reassignment. I was one of the crew selected to stay on. During loading and repairs we had liberty. But we also had to get our guns in shape and restore our ammo for the next trip. I did manage to make a quick trip home to Maine. Most of it was spent on trains and Buses. We also had to paint our gun tubs and ammo storage lockers. This was a long layover but as I remember very little idle time. The sacond trip on the Alexander Martin was about the same except we took supplies to Iran to be transported to Russia. Then back to the USA and the whole gun crew departed the ship at Baltimore and sent back to the Brooklyn A.G.Center for reassignment. I spent 10 months on this ship. After 5 days at the A.G.C. I was given 20 days leave and went home to Maine. The 5 days at the center you were kept busy with various assignments. If you wasn't training you had a job to do. It could be scrubing floors, working in the Kitchen, like breaking eggs, peeling potatoes, working on the chow line, cleaning toilets and etc. No idle time while at these centers. Note. On the first trip a gun crew member had a appendix rupture as we pulled into Beira Portugese East Africa. This was a neutral port. He was operated on by a German Doctor. Merchant ships had no Doctors or medical personal. Second trip we had a GM3c that had serious infection develope. A British Army Doctor advised he be hospitalized immediately. He was detached at Suez, Egypt. Jan.13,1945. We picked up a GM3c replacement Feb.5,1945 in Iran. So they kept track of sailors stranded. After my leave was over to Maine and I reported back to the Brooklyn A.G.C. The next day I was on the bulletin board to report to the U.S. Armed Guard School, Shelton, Va. For a four week refresher training. Was not to happy to return to Norfolk. Lot of the training was recognition of Japanese planes. The war was over with Germany. After the training was completed we took a troop train by the southern route to San Francisco Armed Guard Center at Treasure Island. It took quite a few days to complete the trip. The trip was enjoyable. We could leave the train at various stops. We had to be back on before the train was scheduled to leave. If one man didn't make it. We were all restricted to the train for the rest of the trip. We had one close call. We had a sailor running down the track after the train and losing ground. Then the train slowed down and somebody grabbed him and pulled him on board. We think the conductor saw him and the engineer slowed the train. Arrived at Treasure Island 7-02-45. Was assigned to the SS Vanderbilt Victory 7-12-45 at Benica, Ca. At Treasure Island we had training, job assignments,tests,exams and etc. Plus liberty. San Francisco was a great liberty city. The Vanderbilt Victory had loaded ammo at Port Chicago and moved to Benica to take on ammo. The ship was new and had only made one trip before with a 13 man gun crew. We made it a 28 man gun crew. We had liberty at Benica and the rest of the time was getting acquainted with the ship, gun assignments, quarters, safety equipment, standing watch and etc. We set sail to Iwo Jima. By Enerwetoh, Saipan and then Iwo Jima where we were staging for the invasion of Japan. Both bombs were dropped and Japan surrendered ending WW11. We left the staging area at Iwo Jima. Moth balled all the guns and dumped all our ammo overboard and secured the empty ammo lockers. Then set sail for Saipan. Arrived at Saipan early Sept. The whole gun crew except a GM3c departed the ship at Saipan. Waiting transportation back to San Francisco. We stayed there about a month before we got a troop ship to San Francisco. Whlle at Saipan we were put to work cleaning up the Island of live ammo and empty ammo cases. We had marines with us. As they were Japanese soldiers in the hills that didn't believe the war was over with. Finally got on a troop ship heading to San Francisco. Fully loaded with soldiers and marines. We were assigned to ships company. And our job was to keep people from falling overboard. And keep the chow line moving and orderly. The chow line was long and almost constant. The advantage of this assignment was not having to wait in the chow line and a little better place to sleep. Don't remember the ship's name. Amd it is not in my records. My records show I REPORTED TO SAN FRANCISCO A.G. Center 10-13-45 from the Vanderbilt Victory. The records of the ship show it went to Pearl Harbor and never went back to the States until 2-24-46. Thats why they took the gun crew off. I had about 5 more months to do before discharge. Some were being assign to the fleet and to a Navy ship. I considered re-enlistment But had met my future wife in Ricnmond, Ca. back in July. So I got assigned to Tadcen at T.I. Was assigned to M.P. duty on Treasure Island. Served out my time doing this. Feb.26 I was sent to Shoemaker, Ca. for discharge. Could have gone back to Boston where I enlisted. But I had a chance to look at Northern Ca. and decided I would give it a go out here. Plus I had the travel money back to Boston plus back pay. And this gave me a start out here. As you can see the sailors were kept busy at the A.G.Centers maintaining the centers. Busy young people are to busy to get in trouble. It had to be a challenge to keep track of all the personal in and out of the Centers. Plus where they were at overseas. Most of the time you went back to the Center where you were dispatched from but not allways. The replacement we picked up in Iran was from the S.F. Armed Guard Center at Treasure Island. But he was sent to the Brooklyn A.G. Center with the rest of us at Baltimore when we arrive back to the USA. Before you got leave you had to accumulate it. Sorry this is so long. Hope it answers some of your questions.-------Al
Al, you forgot one little item in your post! I was also in Convoy UGS-48. You surely remember we came under attack by German torpedo plane on 1 August 1944 off North Africa. There were about 40 attacking planes and I think there were about 3 or 4 shot down. Maybe more. No ships were hit so we were lucky again! I had been in Convoy UGS-40 when we came under an extemely large attack, near the same area, and we shot down 22 enemy planes. However, we were able to prevent any ship losses. That attack took place on 11 May 1944, the day before my 18th birthday!!! What a great birthday present!!! Roy Brown
Sorry for not putting that in Roy. When reading your book Jig How this was when I found out we were in the same convoy. This is a great book as it touches all basis. I'm trying to find another one for my great-grandson. I was in the part of the convoy that split off towards Suez where we were in a sneak air attack. Planes came in with engines cut off. One ship was hit right across from us. I was on watch on the bridge in my 20mm gun tub when this took place. Then the battle continued. Your book demostrats that in a convoy you only know what is happening around you. Not the results of the battle. Both of these battles took place at 17yrs. old and lacking a few days of 4 months of my enlistment date. Take care. Al.