The SteelNavy.Com Message Board: Re: Sorry Ralph I was thinking larger sized unmanned vessels

The current unmanned ships are experimental, to gain real-world experience for future operational ships. The Navy currently has a "big problem" in conceptualizing any unmanned ship having any sort of autonomous weapon-firing ability. No one currently likes the idea of a robot having weapon firing decision ability. Thus, a man-in-the-loop is part of the concept. This has led to the current concept of using an LUSV as nothing more than an arsenal ship...a floating missile magazine, whose weapon-launch commands come from a manned platform. The idea is to have one or perhaps two manned ships accompanied/surrounded by "any number" of LUSV magazine ships, with firing commands coming from the manned "control" platforms.

https://news.usni.org/2025/03/27/report-to-congresson-navy-large-unmanned-surface-and-undersea-vehicles

You can find concept images of what the operational ships might look like with a search.

I re-found this article, wbich states the Navy now plans to combine MUSV and LUSV functions into one design:

https://breakingdefense.com/2025/06/navy-will-consolidate-medium-large-usv-programs-gao/

The USAF Loyal Wingman program is their equivalent. Manned fighters flying in company with a surrounding "swarm" of unmanned aircraft, with any firing commands (or at least weapon firing enabling commands) coming from the manned platform.

Unless/until any sort of comfort level with allowing unmanned platforms to make weapon launching decisions comes about, you will not see what you are thinking. A "fully independent" unmanned weapon system is currently "future sci-fi."

I have done some more reading on the question of when the Battle Force got its current structure. The roots of everything are in "Secnav Instruction 5030.8." I can not get that original item. The best I can get is the first revision...Secnavinst 5030.8a. That was in 2011, and states that amphibs and logistics are Battle Force:

https://www.scribd.com/document/220122744/5030-8B

The current revision appears to be 5030.8D. AI informs me the current Battle Fleet structure has been around since "the 1980s." Being unable to confirm that in any way, I don't trust it. The wacky things I have been getting from AI these days, I pretty much no longer pay serious attention to it. It can be useful for suggestions on further searches, though. (And you want to trust AI with firing decisions? It can't currently accurately answer simple inquries. "Should I shoot?" is not a question I, personally, want it answering.)

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Not the existing smaller floating or submerged drones.

I was thinking along the of a disposable real warship to use in high threat missions. Maybe even AI controlled because of ECM jamming.

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The Naval Fleet Auxiliary Force (NFAF) became the Combat Logistics Force (CLF) in a 2012 reorganization. In 2016, 10 USC 8671 provided the current definition of the Battle Force.

10 USC 8671 (scroll up) :

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/8671#d_2

AI response to my querry:

"10 U.S. Code § 8671, which deals with the determination of vessel delivery dates, was originally added to the U.S. Code on

December 23, 2016.

Here is a summary of its history:

Initial Enactment: The statute was first enacted as § 7301 of Title 10 by the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2017 (Public Law 114–328).
Renumbering: On August 13, 2018, it was renumbered as § 8671 as part of a larger reorganization of Title 10 by the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2019 (Public Law 115–232).
Subsequent Amendments: It has been amended multiple times since its initial creation, including on January 1, 2021, and December 27, 2021."

The then current Sec Nav's directions:

https://news.usni.org/2016/07/13/document-u-s-navy-battle-force-classification-guide

The US Naval Vessel Register (NVR) page for the current Battle Force:

https://www.nvr.navy.mil/nvr/getpage.htm?pagetype=shipbattleforce

I am disappointed. After I gave you all sorts of drone info, you ask what an unmanned vessel is. LUSVs and MUSVs are what the Navy is primarily thinking when it talks additions to the Battle Force. Possibly also large and extra-large UUVs. All the smaller stuff is not considered.

Yes, we have experimental examples of all of these. Look up Orca UUV, Sea Hunter and Sea Hawk, and the ships of Ghost Fleet Overlord (Ranger, Nomad, etc.)

Other navies certainly have unmanned vessels (China among them) but how they classify or consider them, and what future plans they have for them in their fleets I could not say.

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"A 30-year plan aims to grow the fleet to 381 battle force ships and 134 unmanned vessels by 2045."
Battleforce includes amphibious and combat logistics. Is this relatively recent for these types to be considered battleforce?

what is considered an unmanned vessel? Are there any now? Does any navy have those?

BTW, I am assuming the USN executes more sea time per ship than any other navy. Based on reports of crew fatigue in recent interactions with other vessels.

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For anyone in the Delaware Valley belonging to this messageboard perhaps this will interest you.
Wouldn't be surprised there other celebrations across the country.