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Posted by Mike R on February 13, 2025, 10:24:59, in reply to "Re: So Biden's single remark..."
somewhere else, at a different point in time, makes an unfortunate remark(s), it doesn't mean your guy is off the hook for literally dozens of instances when he made threats or questioned the rule of law. 'Whataboutism' works on the playground. Not for grownups.
Here's the bottom line: is he good enough for you? Great. You got him. He's all yours. The question is why? Republican, Democrat, or miscellaneous, his agenda is going to hurt us all. Good luck, my friend. 
Previous Message
Remember Joe's red backdrop speech ? The one where he basically labeled all MAGA voters " terrorists"and " enemies of democracy ". Something right out of a Hail Hydra rally. I didn't forget it. You must have tho........... Previous Message
...is equivalent to the dozens of times the other guy has dived into the gutter. Can't buy it amigo. Enjoy your cocktail. Previous Message
And--as I noted--Biden is on record stating Trump should be locked up. So, you illustrate the hypocricy, and the blithe dismissal of the Right's side, perfectly, thank you.
It's about trust, Mike. Both sides are in the mud, and both sides are far from angels, and each side hypocritically points its finger at the other and accuses them of wrong doing...while engaging in it themselves. It has degenerated to, "No, but you’re MORE wrong than me!" BOTH sides are SHIT to my view, at this point. Neither side has my trust. And you’re right, politics of a bygone era were more civilized here once. I find no false equivalency. I find SHIT. I find politics abhorrent, and utterly counterproductive. There are real issues that need to be addressed, while we play "You're wrong! No, YOU are! NahnahnahnahNAHnah!"
In four years, if I am still here, and anyone else who believes in, and really wants our democracy to continue, then it's not too late, but it won't be pretty.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I think I'll have a drink. 🙄 Previous Message
On the subject of pardons, one has to remember the fact that during the campaign the Republican candidate repeatedly announced his intention to jail political opponents. Repeatedly. On camera. Have we forgotten 'lock her up""? One didn't see this in major party American politics before 2016.I'm sorry, but your making a false equivalency. And in four years there might be nothing left. Previous Message
If/when you have no faith or trust in "the other side," and have perhaps even been unfairly dealt with by them yourself, and they are running the government, with all its inherent powers, then it is not too great a step to believe claims that the charges were made up. Biden famously said Trump needed to be locked up...er, um, "politically" locked up. So, they tried to do exactly that, and "he beat them in the end." How it looks to the hardcore of other side. Makes him an admirable figure in their eyes, actually. (And--since we're on the subject of hypocrisy--there's the matter of Hunter's gun charges, and his eventual pardon by his father, who concluded the charges were manufactured. In fact, I studied a list of all his pardons. I find him to be almost as much of a fearful hypocrite. It just reinforces the whole issue in the minds of his opposition. "Justice" sure seems to depend on who-all is in power.)
History has always been written by the winners. The leader of the Republican Party was reelected by Republican voters, with marginal support from the center. Without that, neither party gets elected these days because the split is so numerically even. Enough of the center did not like what was going on, and voted for change. (I watched a YouTube short where the maker, a police officer, listed his grievances against the Biden administration, each sounding pretty criminal, then looking directly into the camera and concluding maybe it was time a *convicted* criminal be serving in the White House. I found the whole thing amusing. Logical, even.)
Personally, I can then see both sides of the issue, and find neither side really has the high ground. Personally, I think Trump is a serious threat to our democracy, and I am even confident that he will ultimately overstep the boundries so openly and obviously that he will be revealed for what his opponents claim him to be. (To their shock, he honestly hasn't yet reached that point. Hitler looked "really swell" for almost a decade, in a nation without a strong grounding in democracy.) We should know in four years. Right now, he's duly elected. At the end of his term, he's not. THAT is when we see if predictions about him are fulfilled. And that is the time to be upset and antagonizing. Meantime, nothing anyone on the Left says to those who do not like or trust them will change minds. Just the opposite in fact. It digs them in further.
So, chill. He's not even one month into four years in office. Grumble along for the ride. No one really knows the future. At the end of his term, we'll see both where the nation is at, and whether he steps down. If not, there's the civil war that terrifies you. Just supposing he does step down, though. Then what were you so wound up over? 4 years of a President and polices you didn't like? Welcome to 4 years of Biden for the other side.
Give yourself an ulcer over it if you want, but it is honestly still too early. Previous Message
I completely agree with you that both sides are a mess and that we are totally polarized. Civil war is a distinct possibility, perhaps inevitable. I truly hope that our polarization is not fatal.
I do agree with you that January 6th was perpetrated by a relatively small group of right wing extremists. But that's not the real problem.
The real problem now is the refusal of the current President, Republican senators and Republican congressman to acknowledge that January 6th was even an insurrection, or condemn the pardoning of the insurrectionists. This refusal is a huge, huge problem. And this refusal to acknowledge is wholly Republican. It is the official position of the President who is the leader of the Republican Party. And it has become the official position of many elected Republican senators and congressmen. They say so on TV every day.
There can be no national healing as long as the Republican Party and its leaders refuse to acknowledge what happened, and forsake it and the insurrectionists with finality.
I get that their "base" demands that they don't. And that may be even worse.
So I think that perhaps where you and I disagree (and I hope I'm wrong), is that I believe that yes, the refusal to acknowledge January 6th as a very real insurrection, not a "patriotic protest", instigated by a sitting president who is now sitting in office again, has indeed become representative of the entire Republican Party. Those officials within the Republican Party who did not share that view have been purged by the Republican Party leadership and voters (Cheney, Kinzinger, etc.). Those persons are now subject to serious and threatening investigation by Republican Party leadership (Comer et al) and law enforcement agencies led by persons appointed by the Republican Party's leader. The January 6th event has been so minimized, so normalized, and its investigations to be so attacked as illegitimate by the Republican Party as a whole as to make the event itself acceptable to the Party as a whole. January 6th has become officially nothing more than a "patriotic protest" as evidenced by the presidential pardons which followed, and then by the refusal to condemn the pardons by Republican Party leadership including sitting Republican senators and the current Republican Speaker of the House. The leader of the Republican Party was reelected by Republican voters and others after promising to pardon the insurrections. This tends to indicate that pardons for the insurrectionists are acceptable to the Republican electorate. Republican Party leadership has simply, successfully and acceptably, washed away the violent crimes we all watched play out on TV before us. This is simply appalling.
We do agree that yes, there is much trouble with Democrats, too. No doubt about it. Hands down circus, weak and ineffectual, and with shady money dealings. Big trouble, deep trouble. And they earn our disgust every day. But that trouble, all of it, pales in sharp comparison to January 6th being falsely, officially portrayed as nothing more than an acceptable "patriotic protest" by the Republican Party as a whole.
And we are all the losers for it. And we're likely going to keep losing until something far worse happens.
The present situation is nothing short of terrifying.
Just my 2 cents.
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