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Posted by Terry Pottle on September 20, 2023, 4:47:47, in reply to "Re: HMS York 20mm Oerlikons "
and that is where the Profile Morskie - 2002 - plans shows them to be. 
Previous Message
This may or may not work:
https://flic.kr/p/2p4aJGk
In case not, you can see them (gun barrels vertical) in the 11th image on the Tyne Built Ships site that Jeff (below) has highlighted.
(I also have private on-board photo taken from the roof of Y turret looking down onto the quarterdeck.) Previous Message
Hello Dick,
Thank you for your response, it’s extremely helpful. I may go with building York as she appeared in the Norwegian Campaign. If it’s not too much trouble, would you please point me to the photos you referenced regarding the 20mm on the quarterdeck?
Looking at the kit hull, Trumpeter missed the entire bottom row of portholes. Looks I will doing a lot of drilling . I am aware of the lack of planking on the B turret deck. Looks like they followed the older Profile Morskie plans.
Felix
Previous Message
Friedman is not quite right. Photos clearly show that at the time of the Norway Campaign in early 1940 York carried 4 x 20mm. Two were positioned side-by-side (unshielded and untubbed) on B turret and two (again unshielded and untubbed) were in line fore-and-aft on the quarterdeck (and no 20mm on Y turret).
Sometime that summer this seems to have been reduced to just 2 x 20mm (unshielded) as photos of her in UK waters, arriving in Egypt and during her time with the Mediterranean Fleet clearly show just one 20mm on B turret and one (in an octagonal tub) on the quarterdeck (and no 20mm on Y turret).
I have puzzled over this reduction and sometimes wondered if the two ‘missing’ 20mm were relocated somewhere more amidships. Unshielded 20mm are difficult to spot but I have never been able to locate a possible location for them in photos. Also care must be taken not to confuse with the various single Vickers and Lewis guns that York mounted here and there. In the end I came to the conclusion that someone decided that at a time when the RN only had about 50 x 20mm in total, 4 x 20mm was more than York’s fair share - after all most ships had none!
Re possible 20mm abreast the bridge in the old single 2pdr pom pom positions, photos clearly show that the quad 0.5” placed there pre-war were still these positions, still unshielded at the time of the Norway Campaign early 1940, but shielded summer 1940 in UK waters and still there with shields in the Mediterranean. Previous Message
Hi Terry,
I have the older Profile Morskie as well as Raven & Roberts British Cruisers and the Friedman book. Raven & Roberts states that there were no wartime armament modifications but Friedman states 20mm singles were fitted atop B and Y turrets. Perhaps information was not available at the time R&R was written and Friedman may have found the information regarding the Oerlikons.
I usually take Profile Morskie volumes with a certain amount of care. The Trumpeter kit calls for 4 Oerlikons, one each on the turrets and two slightly aft of the bridge superstructure where the older Profile Morskie states single 40mm Pom Poms were fitted. So there is plenty of conflicting information. It appears that Exeter may have been better documented
Hopefully we can get some more definitive answers for our builds.
Felix Previous Message
Interesting, I am waiting for the 700 scale model from Trumpeter, and have been delving into various sources. I also have 2 versions of the Profile Morskie HMS York (both numbered 2, but two release dates, 1996 & 2002). The first version shows a 20mm on B & Y turrets. The second show 1 on B, and 2 on the quarterdeck. One source says she had 3x 20mm at the time of her loss – but unfortunately, I did not record where I found that (dumb)
Her last refit appears to have been in Liverpool, 12.39 – 01-40, where the mounts may have been added.
Thereafter she was pretty active, first in Norway before being sent to the Mediterranean via Cape Town, so whether the mounts could have been added at Alexandria is pure speculation.
Hopefully someone can provide more detailed information Previous Message
Hello All,
I am getting ready to start my Trumpeter 1:350 scale HMS York kit. I am a bit confused about the 20mm Oerlikons that were fitted on her at the time of her loss in 1941. Friedman's book on British cruisers states on page 109 that the only wartime armament improvement was fitting single Oerlikons on top of B and Y turrets. However, the Eduard photoetch set has brass overlays for the kit turrets with spots for 2 20mm Oerlikons on top of B turret and none on Y turret. A very grainy photo of York at Suda Bay appears to show something on top of B turret and nothing on Y turret.
My question is which one is correct, Friedman or the Eduard PE?
Any help would be appreciated.
Felix Bustelo
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