Posted by Samantha Snieder on September 2, 2010, 8:32 am 76.24.153.116
I previously posted a picture of this platter and its mark on this website looking for a pattern name. Kindly someone provided me with some basic information about T.J. Mayer but I still have not been able to identify the pattern name so I can proceed collecting it.
I have been trying to figure this out for over 10 years. Bringing it to different antique shops, Brimfield, postings,etc. each time never getting any farther than that.
I recently came upon a bowl with the same pattern at an antique shop in Maine, but with a completely different mark. I have posted both the original pictures of the platter and the new of the bowl and mark.
I absolutely love these pieces and am very interested in finally discovering the pattern name so I can find more.
Thank you so much! I am so excited to finally have a pattern name to look for! You can't believe how many people I have asked and gotten nowhere.
Is it common that a pattern would be made by more than one maker? Am I better off focussing on finding one versus the other? Pardon my lack of knowledge in this arena. I would love to find more pieces to add to these two.
Samantha: First, yes, it is common that more than one maker produced the same pattern. Now, everyone has their own collecting philosophy. I see no reason to concentrate on a single maker unless you prefer their work over others', or have some academic interest in that particular maker. If you love the pattern, why limit yourself to one maker? Purchase any example that you like and can afford!
Thank you for that. I spent all night searching the web for another example of what I know now the name of finally, hoping to at least see another example of "ivy and flowers", and I couldn't find a single piece! I tried every possible way, mulberry flow, ivy and flowers, mayer, 1855, etc. etc. etc...
I found many websites that talked about mulberry flow in depth but none that had anything other than patterns that were not "ivy and flowers".
Did I pick a pattern that is going to be difficult to find? Or am I going about this all wrong?
Hi Samantha It may help to talk a little about "what is a pattern name". First and best, is where the name is given by the factory and they printed it on the back, as that way the whole world knows it and calls it the same thing. Second best is when the factory gave it a name, which they recorded in their pattern books, but did not print it on the wares. Later research may have enabled the correct names to be applied to these patterns, which were either listed previously as unidentified or had been given a name in the meantime. This brings us the third best, which is where a pattern has been given a name by an earlier authority (author or learned society) and that has become the accepted name and used widely thereafter. It appears that your pattern falls into the fourth best category. One author has apparently given the pattern a name and that name has NOT been widely taken up as an accepted name for that pattern. It may be simply because that pattern turns up so rarely today that few clamour for an accepted name. Put in simple terms, as I understand it, Ivy & Flowers is not THE name of your pattern, but rather it is A name that Ellen Hill gave it. However, that book is one of the few I do not have access to, so may be wrong. Not sure where the 1855 came from either. The good news is that you do have a definite maker and your china dates from 1851 or later, which is all confirmed from the backstamp. Your latest discovery is from the Rorstrand factory of Sweden, which was one of the few Continental European factories to produce transferware. They were not especially original and copied even Wedgwood patterns, as well as Mayer. In searching in the future the only real concrete peg you have is Mayer. The problem is that you will see an awful lot of other Mayer patterns, before occasionally you hit on Ivy & Flowers or whatever it is called. Regards Andrew
Since the pattern name is not printed on the piece you will probably not have much luck with a search for "ivy and flowers"; or for 1855. Most sellers will not bother to research the name and won't know the date. So I would regularly visit web sites of transferware, flow, mulberry etc. dealers. The TCC web site has a listing of many member dealers. Also, regular searches, say weekly, of eBay, looking at pottery, Staffordshire, transferware etc.
Thank you both very much. I can't tell you how perfectly fitting it is that the "pattern" I like and want to collect is going to being a difficult one to come across. I seem to have a knack for it lately
Thanks again for your help. It is definitely the most information I have gathered as of yet and will be very helpful.
I just checked Ellen Hill's book on Mulberry Ironstone. The information she gives including photos of the pattern are makers: Gildea & Walker -- c. 1881 TJ & J Mayer -- c. 1855 and Rorstrand, Sweden -- c. 1860
I have sent Ellen an email asking her to look in on the Message Board and give you a little more help in how you might go about finding some more pieces in your pattern.
Here is a bit more about Mayer and Gildea & Walker
A large pottery works, which became known as the Dale Hall Works was founded at Burslem, Staffordshire, in 1790. It is believed that it was owned by the Stubbs family, although the earliest potter of that name recorded at Dale Hall was Benjamin Stubbs, who was in business from 1818. He was followed in 1822 by the better known Joseph Stubbs, who produced a series of historic American scenes for export.
In 1838 the main pottery at Dale Hall was taken by the Mayer family and the business traded under the following names for the next 100 years. It is possible that Thomas Mayer was at Dale Hall as early as 1828 and these dates and titles are as accurate as can be deduced from the records:
Thomas & John Mayer 1838-1842 Thomas, John & Joshua Mayer 1843-1855 Mayer Bros & Elliott 1855-1858 Mayer & Elliott 1858-1861 Liddle, Elliott & Co 1861-1870 Bates, Elliott & Co 1870-1875 Bates, Walker & Co 1875-1878 Bates, Gildea & Walker 1878-1881 Gildea & Walker 1881-1885 James Gildea 1885-1888 Keeling & Co 1888-1936
Dale Hall still exists today but is now a modern factory site occupied by Steelite International and specializing in hotel and restaurant china. Regards Andrew
Back to: Transferware Collectors Club Website
