[ Post a Response | The Sublime Desire of Cigarette Smoking ]
Posted by vesperae Psychology is somewhat like Meteorology, in that if you spend enough time observing patterns of weather, you can begin to accurately predict what is going to happen next, and why it is happening. Psychology, like Meteorology, is often inexact. But it is the best tool that we have to recognize patterns of behavior, and to attempt to make sense of what motivates that behavior. The theories that I am discussing here aren’t mine alone, by any means, and my relatively high confidence in them comes from the corroboration of others. See especially Richard Klein’s “Cigarettes Are Sublime”, and Corky Newton’s “Generation Risk”, both of which are widely available through online book sellers; and again, also consider that many of these same ideas are supported by the theories of Raucher and Matt Landry. And again, denial and rationalizations cannot exist in a vacuum. Other deeper realizations have to happen before denial and rationalizations can happen. Certainly they must have some significant place in the firsthand, ongoing experience of smoking? And the best news of all is that I now enjoy all aspects of my attraction to smoking more than I ever have before! Where I think the picture becomes incomplete and unrealistic is when you assume that one motivation is stronger than the other, and that they don’t define each other and work together as equal and opposite parts of a whole. I think that the internal psychological dynamic is a "yin/yang" situation. But among those who really enjoy their smoking, do I think that smokers find pleasure and motivation in subconsciously or privately contemplating the Risks and Dangers of smoking, at least from time to time? Yes, without question! This week’s forum header image: The other thing to consider here is that your current Personal SF Mythology seems to be all about focusing on the end of the journey, rather than on the journey itself. The wonderful thing about smoking is that it is a journey of hundreds of thousands of moments over decades, and each moment reinforces and relates to all of the moments that have come before. So many memories, so many thoughts, so many feelings, revisited and connected with directly and indirectly, over and over and over again. Under these circumstances, I think that it is easy to accept the notion that running themes and paradoxical motivations can seem not only possible, but highly likely. But if it were, I think that many smokers would quit. Why spend money, time, and effort on something that you aren’t addicted to, that gives you no pleasure of addiction satisfaction, and that others find socially objectionable, assuming that burning anything would produce a lingering odor that some would object to? Without the metabolic effects of nicotine and the other toxins in cigarette smoke, she wouldn’t even experience any appetite suppression or weight loss benefits. Cheers, Pete! * * * * *vesperae
on April 7, 2007, 9:09 pm, in reply to "Looking in the same window from different sides?"
Message modified by board administrator April 7, 2007, 9:31 pm
Hey Pete, 
“I agree with what you say but only up to a point. As I myself have said I can never really get inside someone’s else head or poke around in their subconscious. It’s very easy to throw in the word subconscious but very hard to actually quantify.”
I’d never have the hubris to claim that I know exactly what is in anyone else’s subconscious mind. But this discussion isn’t about that. It is about observing behavior, thinking about it at length, reading the theories of others, discussing it with others, and attempting to make sense of what appear to be some common and significant patterns.
”Yes I can only comment on my observations and experiences from the outside and yes as a non smoker that may restrict me,”
I think that the restriction goes well beyond being a non-smoker. You aren’t just a non-smoker, you are also what amounts to a strong anti-smoker when it comes to thinking about smoking for yourself. You have firmly decided that you will never be a smoker, for lots and lots of very valid health reasons. Taking the Risk of smoking has zero appeal for you personally, so you have no basis for empathy for this superficially paradoxical state of mind.
”but I will say one thing I have years of experience in listening and observing the world of female smoking to almost heightened level and yes a lot of my SF is interpreted through my ´´comeuppance´´ scenario as seen frequently in my fiction”
Exactly.
”but remember a lot of the denial and rationalisations are based on what I’ve really seen and heard.”
I believe that your interpretation of motivations is based on taking these comments at face value. All I am suggesting is that there might be a little more complexity to them than you have recognized yet.
“But just as I taint my SF with my interpretations and fantasies it’s entirely true of yourself also, who I feel strongly bases your SF through heightening and exaggerating the danger and risk aspect because that’s and aspect that drives and appeals to YOUR SF.”
Actually, my personal SF Mythology has changed and evolved considerably over the years, and before I became a smoker, read Richard Klein before going online, and Raucher after going online, there were a lot of similarities between my former view of smoking and your current view of smoking.
“As you say if my comeuppance fantasy is undermined by a woman actively seeking and embracing the risk and danger then the same is easily applied to your SF by applying my stance in denial and her assurance that she can beat the odds, that the rules of the game wont apply to her.”
Not at all! I take pleasure in thinking about both seemingly paradoxical attitudes, because I believe that they are ultimately inseparable. Again, I believe that they are simply opposite sides of the same “psychological coin”, and that there can be no denial without acceptance, and no acceptance without denial.
”It as if almost we are looking in the same window but from different sides. Both valid I might add. Everybody brings their own interpretations to the table.”
Absolutely! And again, my only motivation here is to attempt to give you an alternative viewpoint that I know from personal experience isn’t easy to see “from your side of the window”.
”What I’ve never said is that smokers aren’t aware of the risks and dangers I just don’t feel they revel in that aspect to such a degree as maybe you’ve tried to sell me on or as seen in this weeks header for example.”
Do I think that all smokers consciously and repeatedly “revel” in thinking about the Risks and Dangers of smoking every time they light up a cigarette? No. Do I think that even a significant minority (outside the DS SF Community) do this? No.
is, like so many of my images, all about challenging the viewer with provocative hyperbole, in the hope that she or he might recognize something new and interesting in her or his relationship with smoking. Sometimes being confronted with the explicit can serve to reveal that which is subtle.
“How many smokers who actually face the worst are almost sure to think ‘I just didn’t think it could happen to me?’ While yes of course aware of the risk and danger denial is the key to the trick of keeping generation after generation smoking. Denial and rationalization are very strong factors I feel to mainstream smokers.”
Again, as we would seem to agree, you cannot have one without the other, but I also believe that just because there is a conscious focus on one, that doesn’t mean that the other is just sitting there as a psychologically inert element in the smoker’s mind. How can it?
”I stick by this simple point that I’ve raised before: If suddenly tomorrow it was announced that no smoker would come to a premature death or suffer any ill effects from smoking do you really believe that vast majority would quit because that risk and danger element was removed?”
Well, I believe that such a cigarette is impossible to create.
”That smoking would suddenly lose its lustre?”
Without question!
”Would you quit?”
Without question! The thrill would be forever gone.
”I certainly believe my girlfriend would be overjoyed to keep smoking.”
With all due respect (and I sincerely mean that), I seriously doubt that this would happen. She might continue to smoke for awhile, but given that she has experienced many years of smoking with all of the implications of addiction and Risk, I suspect that she’d elect to save the money and time, privately remember “the good old days”, and more likely than not, miss them more than she might have imagined she would.
”While for us dark siders of course it would lose it’s appeal but for the vast majority of smokers I think they would be more than happy to embrace such a scenario.”
Perhaps for some, but I believe only for a very brief time. I think that smoking rates would quickly become about as robust as spittoon sales.
”I will say one thing it’s one of the more interesting discussions I’ve had in some time.”
Absolutely; I couldn’t agree more.
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