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Posted by Hikin' Jim on November 2, 2009, 14:56:44, in reply to "Re: Bear Canisters"
162.119.238.162
Vic, I don't think the day hikers were getting bothered, although the bears there have gotten so aggressive that a day hiker might get bothered if he stopped there to eat.
I don't like canisters much, but in problem areas, they are what work. I think that there does need to be a canister requirement for the Vivian Creek Trail's camps.
At the same time, I'd like to see areas outside the Vivian "problem zone" remain as they are -- canister recommended.
HJ
--Previous Message--
: I think the main issue is public
: safety (no one killed or injured by
: a bear,no matter how stupid or
: irresonsible they are),but would
: also like to keep the bears safe,if
: possible
: Will canisters keep bears
: out of campgrounds if they can smell
: the food inside. The canisters are
: not ordor proof and you have to take
: your dinner out of it at some
: point,if you want to eat. Will bears
: eventually abondon the area if they
: can't get to the food ,even thought
: they can still smell it,or will they
: just become more agressive in their
: atempts. If the former,wouldn't a
: ursack work just as well? If the
: latter-30.06-let's hope not!!
: Do dayhikers have any bear problems
: in or around Halfway camp or on the
: Vivian Creek trail? If so, I think
: the problem is deeper than the use
: of bear cans can solve.
:
: --Previous Message--
: No, Brad, I didn't think you were
: joking. I was laughing because we
: think so differently about this
: issue. The SGW is a great place; my
: passion for it remains undiminished.
: Let us hope that the wilderness,
: bears, and backpackers alike all
: prosper and get along just as they
: have since the creation of the
: Wilderness.
:
: Take care,
:
: HJ
:
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: Hj you asked for a reply you may
: think
: I'm a JOKE I could care LESS... You
: surprise me at your statement I
: thought more of you and your passion
: for the outdoors and the SGW.
: Big buiness will Never take over the
: SGW I truely hope,there will always
: be people that will support it till
: the end. Its not Just about Bears
: its about the hole picture. Think
: about it...
: Happy Hiking
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: Brad, you're killing me. lol.
:
: I appreciate your passion for the
: wilderness. I hope all goes well
: for the bears, for you, and for the
: wilderness.
:
: HJ
:
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: WOW HJ,
: Well, first the various scout,
: church,
: etc. camps have nothing to do with
: canisters. Entirely separate issue
: Yes they do Think or Look at The BIG
: Picture of it all...
: First of all how big do you really
: think this wilderness is. Its not
: that big as close as it is to as Big
: of Population there has to be
: RULES... enforcing these as you
: stated it blanket Rule area will be
: har and could and will leave a hole
: in the system of it. Example... I
: get a South Fork Permit and stay
: there a night being as you state
: this trail wouldn't have to have a
: canister. So as I continue my
: journey I end up taking Vivian creek
: out I decide to stay at Halfway
: camp. Problem don't have a canister
: to stay but whos checking.
: Jim I'm not in the best shape as you
: may think... I'm 49 years young. I
: have a bad back from a major injury
: being crushed about 20 people feel
: ontop of me. So yes weight can be a
: issue for me and as again you state
:Brad, you're in WAY above
:average condition.
:Canisters really are
:a burden to an average
:middle aged office worker.
: So freaken what LOL snipple snipple
: wa...
: what are we talking about here
: jeeeese saving the wilderness for
: others and other generations WOW...
: How hard is that...
: From what I heard from the person
: that will be making the rule It will
: happen SOON... So get used to it...
:
: Place the wilderness in effect off
: limits to more and more people, and
: let's just see how long the
: wilderness itself lasts. Seriously.
: Fewer visitors = less public
: support. If public support dries up,
: business interests will prevail.
:
: How is this going to effect more
: people to not use the wilderness. I
: don't think thats a problem.
: Well For SGW its not a problem being
: this wilderness has the 10th most
: used trail in the entire USA and I'm
: sure South Fork is a close second.
: So your not making much sense.
: Funny you think business will
: prevail just like the ski resorts
: tried but didn't being there are
: people that support the Wilderness
: as before.
: Your argument doesn't hold any
: ground sorry to say. Sad.
: But as I said Canisters are going to
: happen weather you like it or not,
: and I think you need to check your
: canister weight again. Most for me
: is 3lbs...
:
: --Previous Message--
: Well, first the various scout,
: church,
: etc. camps have nothing to do with
: canisters. Entirely separate issue
: (unless they're leading BP'ing
: groups).
:
: Second, of course canisters would
: work. The question is if they are
: necessary. Are there any
: "problem areas" for
: backpackers (outside of Vivian
: Creek)? No. Incidents? Sure.
: Problem areas? No. A
: "blanket" canister order
: would impose an unnecessary burden
: on those who BP in non-Vivian Creek
: areas. An Ursack is more than
: adequate in those areas. Don't
: misunderstand me. I'm not saying
: don't take bear precautions. I'm
: saying don't impose a blanket hard
: sided canister regulation. Use the
: canisters where you have to (Vivian
: Cr.) and the Ursack elsewhere.
:
: Third, weight may not matter to you,
: but to some of us it's a vital
: concern. I've had a lot of
: injuries. The more weight I carry,
: the more my injuries are affected.
: Canister rules for me start placing
: areas of the wilderness off limits
: to me and many others like me.
: Brad, you're in WAY above average
: condition. Canisters really are a
: burden to an average middle aged
: office worker. Place the wilderness
: in effect off limits to more and
: more people, and let's just see how
: long the wilderness itself lasts.
: Seriously. Fewer visitors = less
: public support. If public support
: dries up, business interests will
: prevail. A blanket canister rule
: might actually harm the bears
: rather than save them. Think about
: it.
:
: They don't have a blanket rule in
: the Sierra. Neither should we.
:
: HJ
:
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: How can you say that people are
: over-reacting about the Bear problem
: in the SGW ?
: IMO I feel there have been problems
: in other areas SF trail head, The
: group/christian camps on the boarder
: of hwy 38 there have been problems
: just like on Vivian creek trail and
: Forest Falls.
: Having entire regs isn't a bad
: thing. Its a start to improving the
: experience.
: I can't understand why one feels
: canisters won't work fine for the
: rest of the wilderness. Well they
: can but the most don't think the
: same as you. They like to be messy.
: creating problems. This is why it is
: so important to have this reg.
: I could careless about the weight
: issue. when I started backpacking in
: the 70's my pack used to weight
: nearly 50lbs+ on a overnight trip
: LOL Yes with age and injuries my
: back doesn't or can't take as much
: but it doesn't stop me Now days my
: same pack weights for a overnight
: trip about 20lbs big differrence so
: and extra few pounds is only going
: to make me stronger in the end and
: makinf for a better experience.
: All I know is that its going to
: happen Mandatory Canister Rule for
: the enitre San Gorgonio
: Wilderness...
: P.S. Canisters do WORK for the SGW
: and the wildlife your protecting for
: generations to come.
: So Use one Please !!!
:
: --Previous Message--
: I think people are over-reacting.
: Yes, there have been a lot of
: problems on the Vivian Creek trail.
: Maybe a canister requirement would
: be appropriate there, but there's no
: need for canisters elsewhere in the
: SGW.
:
: The real issue is that there are a
: lot of people who are taking no bear
: precautions at all. Non-canister
: bear precautions work fine in the
: SGW.
:
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: Are there bears at all the camp
: areas
: in SGW? Havn't heard of any
: problems but the area of Vivian.
: maybe the problem lays with the
: residents of Forest Falls Feeding
: the bears?
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: From Halfway Camp CLOSURE thread
: below.
: Seems like most everyone here is in
: favor of a bear canister requirement
: for the SGW. The requirement is
: currently being discussed by local
: Forest Service officials. However,
: the FS system is usually reluctant
: to impose additional requirements
: and restrictions on the public
: without a very strong need and a
: voiced desire by the public. We all
: know there would be a few who
: complain about having to buy or rent
: a canister.
: And instituting such a requirement
: involves a considerable amount of
: time, red tape, and many levels of
: review and approval. Also, FS
: workload is overflowing and
: priorities have to be set. We can
: help them be aware of the public
: desire and set those priorities by
: simply sending a short polite note
: about our desire for a bear canister
: requirement, letter or post card, to
: Forest Supervisor's Office,
: 602 South Tippecanoe Avenue,
: San Bernardino, CA 92408. Mine is on
: it's way.
:
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