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Posted by Vic
on November 1, 2009, 19:03:16, in reply to "Re: Bear Canisters"
72.87.175.236
I think the main issue is public safety (no one killed or injured by a bear,no matter how stupid or irresonsible they are),but would also like to keep the bears safe,if possible
Will canisters keep bears out of campgrounds if they can smell the food inside. The canisters are not ordor proof and you have to take your dinner out of it at some point,if you want to eat. Will bears eventually abondon the area if they can't get to the food ,even thought they can still smell it,or will they just become more agressive in their atempts. If the former,wouldn't a ursack work just as well? If the latter-30.06-let's hope not!!
Do dayhikers have any bear problems in or around Halfway camp or on the Vivian Creek trail? If so, I think the problem is deeper than the use of bear cans can solve.
--Previous Message--
: No, Brad, I didn't think you were
: joking. I was laughing because we
: think so differently about this
: issue. The SGW is a great place; my
: passion for it remains undiminished.
: Let us hope that the wilderness,
: bears, and backpackers alike all
: prosper and get along just as they
: have since the creation of the
: Wilderness.
:
: Take care,
:
: HJ
:
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: Hj you asked for a reply you may
: think
: I'm a JOKE I could care LESS... You
: surprise me at your statement I
: thought more of you and your passion
: for the outdoors and the SGW.
: Big buiness will Never take over the
: SGW I truely hope,there will always
: be people that will support it till
: the end. Its not Just about Bears
: its about the hole picture. Think
: about it...
: Happy Hiking
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: Brad, you're killing me. lol.
:
: I appreciate your passion for the
: wilderness. I hope all goes well
: for the bears, for you, and for the
: wilderness.
:
: HJ
:
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: WOW HJ,
: Well, first the various scout,
: church,
: etc. camps have nothing to do with
: canisters. Entirely separate issue
: Yes they do Think or Look at The BIG
: Picture of it all...
: First of all how big do you really
: think this wilderness is. Its not
: that big as close as it is to as Big
: of Population there has to be
: RULES... enforcing these as you
: stated it blanket Rule area will be
: har and could and will leave a hole
: in the system of it. Example... I
: get a South Fork Permit and stay
: there a night being as you state
: this trail wouldn't have to have a
: canister. So as I continue my
: journey I end up taking Vivian creek
: out I decide to stay at Halfway
: camp. Problem don't have a canister
: to stay but whos checking.
: Jim I'm not in the best shape as you
: may think... I'm 49 years young. I
: have a bad back from a major injury
: being crushed about 20 people feel
: ontop of me. So yes weight can be a
: issue for me and as again you state
:Brad, you're in WAY above
:average condition.
:Canisters really are
:a burden to an average
:middle aged office worker.
: So freaken what LOL snipple snipple
: wa...
: what are we talking about here
: jeeeese saving the wilderness for
: others and other generations WOW...
: How hard is that...
: From what I heard from the person
: that will be making the rule It will
: happen SOON... So get used to it...
:
: Place the wilderness in effect off
: limits to more and more people, and
: let's just see how long the
: wilderness itself lasts. Seriously.
: Fewer visitors = less public
: support. If public support dries up,
: business interests will prevail.
:
: How is this going to effect more
: people to not use the wilderness. I
: don't think thats a problem.
: Well For SGW its not a problem being
: this wilderness has the 10th most
: used trail in the entire USA and I'm
: sure South Fork is a close second.
: So your not making much sense.
: Funny you think business will
: prevail just like the ski resorts
: tried but didn't being there are
: people that support the Wilderness
: as before.
: Your argument doesn't hold any
: ground sorry to say. Sad.
: But as I said Canisters are going to
: happen weather you like it or not,
: and I think you need to check your
: canister weight again. Most for me
: is 3lbs...
:
: --Previous Message--
: Well, first the various scout,
: church,
: etc. camps have nothing to do with
: canisters. Entirely separate issue
: (unless they're leading BP'ing
: groups).
:
: Second, of course canisters would
: work. The question is if they are
: necessary. Are there any
: "problem areas" for
: backpackers (outside of Vivian
: Creek)? No. Incidents? Sure.
: Problem areas? No. A
: "blanket" canister order
: would impose an unnecessary burden
: on those who BP in non-Vivian Creek
: areas. An Ursack is more than
: adequate in those areas. Don't
: misunderstand me. I'm not saying
: don't take bear precautions. I'm
: saying don't impose a blanket hard
: sided canister regulation. Use the
: canisters where you have to (Vivian
: Cr.) and the Ursack elsewhere.
:
: Third, weight may not matter to you,
: but to some of us it's a vital
: concern. I've had a lot of
: injuries. The more weight I carry,
: the more my injuries are affected.
: Canister rules for me start placing
: areas of the wilderness off limits
: to me and many others like me.
: Brad, you're in WAY above average
: condition. Canisters really are a
: burden to an average middle aged
: office worker. Place the wilderness
: in effect off limits to more and
: more people, and let's just see how
: long the wilderness itself lasts.
: Seriously. Fewer visitors = less
: public support. If public support
: dries up, business interests will
: prevail. A blanket canister rule
: might actually harm the bears
: rather than save them. Think about
: it.
:
: They don't have a blanket rule in
: the Sierra. Neither should we.
:
: HJ
:
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: How can you say that people are
: over-reacting about the Bear problem
: in the SGW ?
: IMO I feel there have been problems
: in other areas SF trail head, The
: group/christian camps on the boarder
: of hwy 38 there have been problems
: just like on Vivian creek trail and
: Forest Falls.
: Having entire regs isn't a bad
: thing. Its a start to improving the
: experience.
: I can't understand why one feels
: canisters won't work fine for the
: rest of the wilderness. Well they
: can but the most don't think the
: same as you. They like to be messy.
: creating problems. This is why it is
: so important to have this reg.
: I could careless about the weight
: issue. when I started backpacking in
: the 70's my pack used to weight
: nearly 50lbs+ on a overnight trip
: LOL Yes with age and injuries my
: back doesn't or can't take as much
: but it doesn't stop me Now days my
: same pack weights for a overnight
: trip about 20lbs big differrence so
: and extra few pounds is only going
: to make me stronger in the end and
: makinf for a better experience.
: All I know is that its going to
: happen Mandatory Canister Rule for
: the enitre San Gorgonio
: Wilderness...
: P.S. Canisters do WORK for the SGW
: and the wildlife your protecting for
: generations to come.
: So Use one Please !!!
:
: --Previous Message--
: I think people are over-reacting.
: Yes, there have been a lot of
: problems on the Vivian Creek trail.
: Maybe a canister requirement would
: be appropriate there, but there's no
: need for canisters elsewhere in the
: SGW.
:
: The real issue is that there are a
: lot of people who are taking no bear
: precautions at all. Non-canister
: bear precautions work fine in the
: SGW.
:
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: Are there bears at all the camp
: areas
: in SGW? Havn't heard of any
: problems but the area of Vivian.
: maybe the problem lays with the
: residents of Forest Falls Feeding
: the bears?
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: From Halfway Camp CLOSURE thread
: below.
: Seems like most everyone here is in
: favor of a bear canister requirement
: for the SGW. The requirement is
: currently being discussed by local
: Forest Service officials. However,
: the FS system is usually reluctant
: to impose additional requirements
: and restrictions on the public
: without a very strong need and a
: voiced desire by the public. We all
: know there would be a few who
: complain about having to buy or rent
: a canister.
: And instituting such a requirement
: involves a considerable amount of
: time, red tape, and many levels of
: review and approval. Also, FS
: workload is overflowing and
: priorities have to be set. We can
: help them be aware of the public
: desire and set those priorities by
: simply sending a short polite note
: about our desire for a bear canister
: requirement, letter or post card, to
: Forest Supervisor's Office,
: 602 South Tippecanoe Avenue,
: San Bernardino, CA 92408. Mine is on
: it's way.
:
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