Posted by Lee
on July 26, 2009, 10:54 pm
69.247.178.15
I have never met Dom, but I ask this question to anyone else that has experience with this type of dog. Experience with APBT will help understand the type of dog I am describing.
I am not talking about building prey drive. I am not talking about building defense drive or expressing rank drive. What I am referring to is teaching a dog that has expressed fight drive that it is ok to express this behavior towards a human. Fortunately, most fight driven dogs can learn to "bring this to the table" by working them in prey or defense initially and then switching them into a "TRUELY ACTIVE" intense aggression found in fight drive.
1. Many "fight driven" dogs can be "brought out" while doing prey work...which helps in training by making a trainer's job easier. These dogs that are triggered in prey are easy to work with, but sometimes a fight driven dog may not be interested in tugs or toys. Although most fight driven dogs will still have prey towards rabbits, hogs, or something that is REAL prey, some just may not have prey drive towards non-prey (unreal) items.
2. Also, sometimes a dog with high fight can be "brought out" through defense work, which helps in training by making the decoy's job easier...but some times you will find a dog that just loves people...and is hard to trigger with "defensive" or "rank" posturing. as I believe a dog like this is so confident you just can't use defense or rank to get them started. Throw a posturing dominating or threatening stare at them and they just give you that happy wiggle butt. Using "calm assertiveness" (rank posturing) is a unproductive as the non-rank driven dog is not interested in dominating humans. Being calm and they won't go into fight...Flank them and they wiggle butt with a kiss on the hand. Standing up and happy...forward and happy. Not sitting down, Not shutting down...just not upset or threatened by a human...at least not yet. So, what's next?
Fight driven dogs with prey or defense are easy to train though, so for this post, let me add another "set of components"...say the dog also has 1. Low prey drive, 2. very high stimulus thresholds for defense work or rank posturing, 3. high pain tollerances, and 4. strong nerves. The reason for adding the additional "set of components" is to ask about a "good dog" that is hard to train. I say "good" because if anything the dog is just "too confident" and "too stable" for us to see what they really "bring to the table." Many trainers get "stumped" by a dog like this as the dog APPEARS TO BE a dud.
Trainer or not...This is where I believe living with and understanding dogs, especially game dogs, is benefical. As, sometimes you have a "dud" that has high fight drive, which one has to learn how to recognize and we do this by understanding and living with the dogs. Now this may not be my favorite type of dog, but since fight drive is a common goal in PP work, I do believe these dogs are worth taking a closer look at. The question is, "what should the trainer do on the training field for a dog like this to learn to express its potential in bitework or PP work?" The dog may have no prey and is not sensitive typical defense (rank or defensive postering or even pain)...and be difficult to start...but once they are turned on they can really progress VERY QUICKLY and become GREAT DOGS. IMO, I think all this type of dog needs is fast UP CLOSE ACTION combined with some pain to stimulate their fight instinct and for them to realize what is going on. Once that is done, I have seen dogs like this will key up and progress very rapidly. Now, this is based on my experiences and opinions...but, it is dogs like this (that don't have prey and defense) that have taught me that fight drive is NOT just a combination of balancing prey and defense. Although very similiar to a prey/defense balanced dog, I believe there is something else going on as well. Now, the trick is to bring to a training field what is needed for a dog like this needs to learn it is ok to see a human as a fighting partner. I have some of my own methods (working them with another dog or working them up close and quick), but I would like to hear what people like Donovan do with a dog like this.
INTERRUPTIVE NOTE...BEFORE GOING ONTO #3 & $4. Not every dog has the confidence or nerves to use fast up close action or pain to build fight. Trying to use fast up close action or pain to build fight drive in pain senstive or nervous dogs will create nervous fear biters IMO. A liability. I have no interest in that. I love kids and people too much to create a danger for society. If however the dog has high pain thresholds and strong nerves, then it isn't likely to be spooked or made upstable by fast, up close action that may involve some pricking and proding here and there...rapidly reaching in and out showing ill intent and "aggitation" by the decoy.
I also like working a dog like this with another dog present.
That said, with such a dog (high fight drive, strong confidence, solid nerves...but no prey or defense)...how do you start them?
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