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    The envoironment thread below

    Posted by Godders on 14/5/2019, 10:58:27

    Think it was Howzatter slagging off the youth of today for killing the new, young trees that have been planted.

    Whilst I don't condone such behaviour it is important to recognise that it's because of our generation and the ones beforehand that the environment has become so critical.

    Even in my living memory, we went from second hand toilet roll being a joke in school from today when, if you don't use recycled loo roll or at least paper sourced from sustainably managed sources, your're then considered a bit of an idiot.

    So, there is hope. but the bottom line is that too little is being done and too slowly. People are greedy, selfish and thoughtless.

    For instance, why on earth aren't new build houses forced to install solar panels on their roofs as a matter of course? The technology is there but, oh that;s right, some fat cat in the energy industry qwon't get there £xmillion bonus.

      Re: The envoironment thread below

      Posted by Farhat on 14/5/2019, 11:45:43, in reply to "The envoironment thread below"

      Capitalism has killed the planet. It's now too late, because the people charged with fixing the problem are the same people that created it.

      Unless drastic action is taken very, very shortly. Like NOW.

        Re: The envoironment thread below

        Posted by Morph on 14/5/2019, 11:15:10, in reply to "The envoironment thread below"

        You don't half talk a load of bollocks mate

          Re: The envoironment thread below

          Posted by City Gent on 14/5/2019, 15:38:33, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

            Re: The envoironment thread below

            Posted by bbb on 14/5/2019, 15:07:01, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

            Harsh but fair...

              Re: The envoironment thread below

              Posted by Godders on 14/5/2019, 11:40:49, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

              do enlighten me then as to what I've written that is "a load of bollocks"...

                Re: The envoironment thread below

                Posted by Morph on 14/5/2019, 11:49:19, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                Suggesting all new build houses aren't prefitted with solar panels because energy fat cats don't want them to be is a load of bollocks for starters

                  Re: The envoironment thread below

                  Posted by Mahatma Gander on 14/5/2019, 12:17:10, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                  Maybe not 100% accurate, there are after all construction fat cats that don't want the hassle of building suitable sustainable homes as well.

                  However, it's far from bollocks.

                    Re: The envoironment thread below

                    Posted by Morph on 14/5/2019, 13:26:33, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                    It is absolute bollocks. There are so many ways that small solar can be pooled together and traded as a traditional power station, it's a real money earner for energy companies. It would be great for energy companies if all homes had solar installed

                      Re: The envoironment thread below

                      Posted by Godders on 14/5/2019, 13:46:25, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                      So why don't they then?

                        Re: The envoironment thread below

                        Posted by Morph on 14/5/2019, 14:45:35, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                        So you want energy companies to start building houses as well now? They don't own the rooftop, would many people be happy with someone dumping solar panels on their roof?

                          Re: The envoironment thread below

                          Posted by ruffcat on 14/5/2019, 15:15:04, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                          Also seem to be forgetting that many find it difficult to even afford a house, let alone with added cost of solar panels. It may seem a wise investment in the long term but the short term budget cannot afford it.

                            Re: The envoironment thread below

                            Posted by Godders on 14/5/2019, 16:18:43, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                            If you can afford a house, I'd suggest you're most likely to be able to afford solar panels too.

                            but also as MG states below.

                            Because contrary to what Morph says, if solar panels were part of building regs then they'd have to be installed and therefore solar energy becomes part of the build in the same way that, nowadays, you'd expect a gas boiler and electricity to your home.

                            I don't get what the difference is.

                              Re: The envoironment thread below

                              Posted by Morph on 14/5/2019, 16:25:43, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                              Your argument is fukking stupid mate, solar panels aren't even feasible on most homes. What should we do, make them compulsory for every home, use all of the base materials to make them, all of the pollution to install them and then charge the homeowner for them and then it's tough shit when they aren't viable.

                              If you suggested forcing owners to retrofit their homes to be more efficient then I'd probably have a little bit more sympathy for your argument

                                Re: The envoironment thread below

                                Posted by Mahatma Gander on 14/5/2019, 16:34:00, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                                Sigh.

                                So why not make it compulsory for new builds to have a viability assessment and for new developments to follow whatever rules are required to optimise solar use and of course overall sustainability.

                                  Re: The envoironment thread below

                                  Posted by Morph on 14/5/2019, 16:43:03, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                                  That's a possibility but it would more than likely show it is viable in such a tiny proportion of cases that it really isn't worth the hassle.

                                  Environmentally you'd be better off making all new developments install a small (1MW for example) titanium encased nuclear reactor that would more than serve the needs of the residents and produce no emissions.

                                  Or, even better, we should negotiate to stay within the single market of the EU and then we can take power from Moroccan solar installations and Nordic run of river hydro.

                                    Re: The envoironment thread below

                                    Posted by Altern-8 on 14/5/2019, 17:37:38, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                                    or most of the worlds biggest offshore windfarms that are British. With many more in the pipeline.

                                    Re: The envoironment thread below

                                    Posted by Mahatma Gander on 14/5/2019, 16:56:10, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                                    Tiny??????

                                    Lol.

                                    Fair point.

                                      Re: The envoironment thread below

                                      Posted by Morph on 14/5/2019, 17:10:02, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                                      It would be tiny mate, honestly. Anything north of Birmingham isn't viable at all for starters and if you're lucky enough to be south of Brum then only something like 9% of current houses have a roof that makes them viable. Not sure how new builds would be significantly better.

                                        Re: The envoironment thread below

                                        Posted by Mahatma Gander on 14/5/2019, 17:18:08, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                                        That's drivel, the difference between London and Stirling is something like 10%.

                                        And as I said new builds should have to be optimised for sustainability including roof design.

                                        The problem with solar panels is of course that they tend to produce electricity during the day, not optimal for a lot of households but they could be generating electricity for the nation as well of course but the Tories took away the incentives.

                                          Re: The envoironment thread below

                                          Posted by Morph on 14/5/2019, 17:32:48, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                                          People can't moan about too few homes being built and the insist on additional costs and restrictions on the building of them.

                                          Since the Tories took away the FiT's then they aren't feasible north of Birmingham mate.

                                          People should retrofit their homes to be "smart homes" and then they can sell the rights to their energy demand to companies that will switch off appliances / reduce the demand and sell that back to the grid. That would be a much more effective way of reducing demand on the grid

                                            Re: The envoironment thread below

                                            Posted by Mahatma Gander on 14/5/2019, 17:38:05, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                                            I'm not moaning about not enough homes being built.

                                            I want the ones that are built not to be shit.

                                            The difference in average savings differs by about £10-20 a year between London and Stirling.

                                            BUT, give them the same level of subsidy that fossil fuels are getting and oh how that viability equation might change. And of course, we really can't afford not to.

                                              Re: The envoironment thread below

                                              Posted by Morph on 14/5/2019, 17:50:53, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                                              I'm talking about unsubsidised, here is a good map:
                                              https://globalsolaratlas.info/

                                              Pursuing solar here would be madness, there are loads of better, renewable alternatives.

                                                Re: The envoironment thread below

                                                Posted by Mahatma Gander on 14/5/2019, 18:20:38, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                                                Don't you think though that if the money that is being used to subsidise fossil fuels were directed to renewables we'd be a hell of a lot better off?

                                                  Re: The envoironment thread below

                                                  Posted by Nearly a Genius on 14/5/2019, 17:59:25, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                                                  Actually, it wouldn't be madness. Even on mainly cloudy days, enough sunlight gets through to lessen reliance on other forms of power significantly.

                                                  Re: The envoironment thread below

                                                  Posted by Godders on 14/5/2019, 17:41:38, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                                                  glad you're having a sensible argument with Morph about this as you're making the points that I was trying to - but much better in fairness. Seems like he's, at least, listening to you and not me though!

                                                    Re: The envoironment thread below

                                                    Posted by Mahatma Gander on 14/5/2019, 18:24:51, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                                                    It's the argument we simply can't dodge.

                                                    Talk of viability has an importance so it's right to discuss it because you want to do the best you can with what you have but it becomes almost moot when you consider the complete and utter lack of viability that the way we work today has beyond the very short term.

                                                      Re: The envoironment thread below

                                                      Posted by Morph on 14/5/2019, 17:52:25, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                                                      I always hear you mate, I just don't listen

                                            Re: The envoironment thread below

                                            Posted by Scathing hatter on 14/5/2019, 16:45:35, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                                            "Environmentally you'd be better off making all new developments install a small (1MW for example) titanium encased nuclear reactor that would more than serve the needs of the residents and produce no emissions."

                                            What could possibly go wrong with that idea?

                                Re: The envoironment thread below

                                Posted by Mahatma Gander on 14/5/2019, 14:03:46, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                                Because they get bigger subsidies for fossil fuels and so on.

                                Short termist neolib dogma in all its shining glory.

                      Re: The envoironment thread below

                      Posted by Godders-botherer on 14/5/2019, 11:01:00, in reply to "The envoironment thread below"

                      My new build house has solar panels.

                        Re: The envoironment thread below

                        Posted by Magic Trees on 14/5/2019, 11:04:23, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                        What happens when the solar panels get covered in bird shit. Does it reduce their effectiveness ?

                          Re: The envoironment thread below

                          Posted by Godders-botherer on 14/5/2019, 11:08:06, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                          Never checked but not sure they would get covered.
                          I'll have a look when I get home.

                            Re: The envoironment thread below

                            Posted by Godders on 14/5/2019, 11:06:59, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                            Firstly, that rarely happens.

                            then it depends on the type of panel but occasionally they might need cleaning carefully I would guess.

                            but it's hardly a huge factor - even if you live in a starling infested area then the likelihood of your panels losing significant ability to produce electricity is very slim.

                              Re: The envoironment thread below

                              Posted by Magic Trees on 14/5/2019, 11:11:58, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                              I have stop/ start on my car Godders and have saved 2.5kg of carbon in a year .

                            Re: The envoironment thread below

                            Posted by Godders on 14/5/2019, 11:01:59, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                            Good.

                              Re: The envoironment thread below

                              Posted by lewsey Corner on 14/5/2019, 11:23:25, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                              I held my breath for 30 seconds and saved 0.01 carbon thingys, I nearly died, hopefully, that helps the planet.

                                Re: The envoironment thread below

                                Posted by Mahatma Gander on 14/5/2019, 12:18:24, in reply to "Re: The envoironment thread below"

                                Keep practising and eventually, it probably will.

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