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    Luton is now a Remain town

    Posted by Billy Brexit on 6/11/2018, 9:30:35

    Well there you go, Luton was 56/44 in the referendum but coincidentally now stands at 44/56, according to a 'poll'.

    Never mind and all that, the real vote was done and dusted long ago.

    Big bag of sour grapes and a box of tissues available on March 29 for those that need it.


    https://factsand.news/2018/11/05/politics/remain-would-win-a-new-brexit-referendum-by-8-according-to-a-huge-nationwide-poll/

      Re: Luton is now a Remain town

      Posted by A6 on 6/11/2018, 12:58:15, in reply to "Luton is now a Remain town "

      So using your logic the 1975 vote didn't,t matter.

        Re: Luton is now a Remain town

        Posted by Noddy on 6/11/2018, 10:15:36, in reply to "Luton is now a Remain town "

        We will be applying to rejoin within 5 years. Just my opinion and I may be wrong.

          Re: Luton is now a Remain town

          Posted by Mahatma Gander on 6/11/2018, 9:56:57, in reply to "Luton is now a Remain town "

          Weren't the polls saying something similar (well a Remain victory at least) the day before the vote?

          Re: Luton is now a Remain town

          Posted by Nearly a Genius on 6/11/2018, 9:50:03, in reply to "Luton is now a Remain town "

          People are allowed to change their minds in a democracy, you know.

            Re: Luton is now a Remain town

            Posted by Democrat on 6/11/2018, 11:25:35, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

            Of course they are but they need to sample what the have voted for first, so far we have not sampled any change only varying political opinion.

              Re: Luton is now a Remain town

              Posted by crumpsall on 6/11/2018, 11:28:17, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

              What do you mean 'sample'? We don't even know the first thing about the terms let alone sampling anything.

              We are being kept completely in the dark, and that is not the way a democracy works.

                Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                Posted by Democrat on 6/11/2018, 11:37:16, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                I don't believe you can just re vote until it is proved a failure. Who Can prove leaving won't benefit us , no one knows. Politicians on both sides have differing views, who do you believe, I don't know. I don't believe it is democratic to take a new vote on a suspicion things might go tits up. No one can prove what the future holds, we need to sample the future, what will it hold, who knows. If it does go tits up we may have to go back begging, or the whole thing could have even collapsed by then. A vote was taken lets sample what that brings and act accordingly.

                  Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                  Posted by crumpsall on 6/11/2018, 11:47:38, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                  Disagree totally. It is more and more obvious that the voting public were massively deceived by the charlatans who led the leave campaign (and who have taken zero responsibility for their actions), and by the idiots who arranged the referendum so badly.

                  Unfortunate though it is (and I have changed my view on this as the farce unfolds - previously I was of the mind that the decision had been made and should be upheld whatever) it has now become apparent that we are totally unprepared for this and have no clue what the effect will be...but all the indications suggest that it will be far from positive.

                  We are human beings, not lemmings. I don't believe for a moment that people should be expected to blindly leap off a cliff, and that is the situation we are now expected to accept.

                  We have a responsibility to the younger generation and for their futures.

                    Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                    Posted by Democrat on 6/11/2018, 11:58:24, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                    You are entitled to that opinion, it is a valid one, regarding young people, we have done a great job of looking after their futures over the last 10/15 years haven't we? A generation of no hope.

                      Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                      Posted by crumpsall on 6/11/2018, 12:03:33, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                      There is plenty of hope amongst young people, don't misjudge them, the young will always be hopeful even though we have savagely let them down. However, there is also a huge amount of anger about what leaving the EU means for their future - I don't know if you speak to any young people who are now of voting age, I do and work with many who feel totally betrayed by the older generation. Many are prepared to do something about it too, and I believe that they should be given a voice.

                        Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                        Posted by Mahatma Gander on 6/11/2018, 12:20:12, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                        Totally agree, maybe a good thing to come out of this will be an increased engagement of young people in the political process.

                        I can only see that as being a good thing.

                          Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                          Posted by crumpsall on 6/11/2018, 12:32:25, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                          Yes, definitely, I koow lots who have become motivated to do something and get involved.

                          The older generation(s) have let them down badly, playing political games.

                            Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                            Posted by Mahatma Gander on 6/11/2018, 12:36:49, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                            Well just to be fair, the younger generations who were of voting age didn't cover themselves in glory with their lack of participation.

                            Probably shouldn't bring him up but it's one of the good things about Corbyn in that he's reaching out to them with some success.

                    Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                    Posted by Nearly a Genius on 6/11/2018, 11:44:40, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                    Well, lets see. So far, we have been told we'll have to renegotiate all the agreements we have as a member of the EU. That includes the right to use airspace, pilot qualifications, medicine quality assurance, food safety, police and law co-, operation, the rights of U.K. citizens in the EU and vice versa, and dozens of others.

                    Plus negotiating trade agreements with other countries, which won't be thinking, 'oh we must give the UK a great deal to the detriment of our economy'.

                    So forgive me if the prospect looks less than rosy.

                      Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                      Posted by Democrat on 6/11/2018, 11:54:16, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                      Don't you believe those agreements can't be re negotiated? Do you seriously think we will be denied airspace when travel to many eu countries is crucial to their economy. That's a farcical view.

                        Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                        Posted by RAFhatter on 6/11/2018, 13:32:10, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                        Trade agreements usually take around a decade to negotiate and that's when you have fully trained and experienced negotiators and the administrative infrastructure to support them. We don't, we haven't needed it for 40 years because we have been part of the EU. We are giving up trade deals with countries all over the world that were negotiated as part of the EU. The chances of those countries giving us a better deal than the ones we have now are practically zero.

                          Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                          Posted by Democrat on 6/11/2018, 15:46:57, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                          Can you prove that or is it just your opinion. You honestly believe the world won't trade with us, that's crazy, everybody wants to sell and buy.

                            Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                            Posted by Nearly a Genius on 6/11/2018, 15:54:48, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                            At a rate that will be beneficial to them, they will probably want to reduce the terms that we have at the moment as a member of the EU. They will certainly not want to pay more for the privilege of trading with a single country on its own.

                              Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                              Posted by Democrat on 6/11/2018, 17:00:39, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                              The word 'probably' in your reply says it all really.

                                Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                Posted by Nearly a Genius on 6/11/2018, 17:40:15, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                Can you envisage any country wanting less favourable terms than it already enjoys? Especially when it has the upper hand?

                                  Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                  Posted by Democratic on 6/11/2018, 17:43:50, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                  'Probably, envisage' all sounds speculative and lacking any fact. Why can't you accept know one knows what the future holds.

                                    Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                    Posted by Nearly a Genius on 6/11/2018, 18:07:48, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                    Well you seem to think it's all going to be sunlit uplands and having our cake and eating it.

                        Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                        Posted by crumpsall on 6/11/2018, 11:57:08, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                        When and how is it going to be renegotiated, pray?

                        We're due to leave in just a few months and absolutely nothing is on the table yet.

                          Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                          Posted by Nearly a Genius on 6/11/2018, 12:01:12, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                          And no-one can guarantee that any agreement would be as beneficial as the one we have already.
                          Other countries are not in the habit of cutting off their noses to ite their faces.

                            Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                            Posted by Democrat on 6/11/2018, 12:00:38, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                            It probably won't happen yet will it? They will delay it. As one or two say on here it may never happen.

                              Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                              Posted by crumpsall on 6/11/2018, 12:05:05, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                              We need to know one way or the other. For many business sectors, the uncertainty is becoming a death sentence.

                                Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                Posted by Nearly a Genius on 6/11/2018, 12:04:03, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                Exactly.
                                This country will come to its senses.

                                  Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                  Posted by Democrat on 6/11/2018, 12:39:18, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                  Time will tell.

                                    Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                    Posted by crumpsall on 6/11/2018, 12:50:20, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                    To be perfectly honest, that is a very unsatisfactory statement.

                                    This is people's futures we're talking about, not some petty* matter.


                                    *Derived from a French word, of course, as is so much of our language!

                                      Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                      Posted by Democrat on 6/11/2018, 13:08:34, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                      But really, time will tell as none of us know what the future holds either way.

                                        Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                        Posted by Nearly a Genius on 6/11/2018, 12:56:28, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                        And some of us haven't got as much future as others.

                    Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                    Posted by The Twitcher on 6/11/2018, 9:47:46, in reply to "Luton is now a Remain town "

                    On Channel 4 last night, the 'Poll' said we would remain and there was a huge cheer like they just won the lottery. We had a democratic vote in 2016. The Irish bird at the end was a complete prick.

                      Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                      Posted by expat on 6/11/2018, 9:46:41, in reply to "Luton is now a Remain town "

                      To late the damage has been done

                        Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                        Posted by C on 6/11/2018, 9:59:13, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                        We've blotted our copy book and will have to sit at the back of the class indefinitely if Brexit gets reversed.

                        Things will never quite be the same and bastards like Selmyr won't let us forget it.

                          Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                          Posted by EastEnder on 6/11/2018, 10:15:47, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                          It's already nothing like the Brexit we were promise.d

                        Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                        Posted by RADSB on 6/11/2018, 9:42:58, in reply to "Luton is now a Remain town "

                        In all the chats I had during the referendum campaign I only met one Remainer - a gammon faced old bloke. Everyone else was a Leave voter.

                          Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                          Posted by EastEnder on 6/11/2018, 9:48:57, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                          Prob didn't speak to all that many brickies regulars on a matchday about it then! Admittedly not all Luton residents by a long way.

                            Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                            Posted by RADSB on 6/11/2018, 9:57:08, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                            Our group in Grumpy corner only but everyone knew all the issues. .

                              Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                              Posted by crumpsall on 6/11/2018, 10:22:00, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                              Well that's odd, you mean you didn't speak to two very close mutual friends, Luton born, bred and resident, who stand around the barrel in Grumpy corner and who I was with in a hostel in Lille for the Euros - one of whom said when the results came in that he'd phone the wife and tell her to pack up home and come and join us? They and several others we both know were certainly Remainers. You may not have talked to them about it of course.

                                Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                Posted by RADSB on 6/11/2018, 10:29:34, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                Not sure who that is but as I say, i only spoke to one Remainer.

                                  Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                  Posted by crumpsall on 6/11/2018, 10:35:37, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                  One posts on here as a gentleman from Dublin (in joke) and the other has sat next to me at matches for more years than the New Stand/DPS has been open! His brother was with us too.

                                    Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                    Posted by RADSB on 6/11/2018, 12:24:25, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                    Rarely see DT these days due to his midlife crisis - donning his DM's in the Oak Road and going to the Northern after.

                                      Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                      Posted by crumpsall on 6/11/2018, 12:27:47, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                      Doc Martins????

                                      But he was around in the Brickies regularly pre-referendum

                                        Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                        Posted by RADSB on 6/11/2018, 12:36:20, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                        Maybe, as I said I only spoke to one Remainer and it wasn't DT.

                                          Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                          Posted by crumpsall on 6/11/2018, 12:45:04, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                          He and PP were certainly devastated when the news broke, as were all of the English in our hotel.

                                          The French, German, Dutch etc were simply bemused by the result.

                                  Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                  Posted by Journeyman on 6/11/2018, 10:24:11, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                  To be fair, it’s no odder than claiming that every issue regarding Brexit was discussed and understood.

                                    Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                    Posted by RADSB on 6/11/2018, 10:28:14, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                    I'm talking about the issues that were put before the voters.

                                      Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                      Posted by Journeyman on 6/11/2018, 10:49:41, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                      And therein lies problem.

                                      Since the campaign, further issues have come to light and the very nature of Brexit has been revealed further.

                                      Regardless of whether this impacts on your own preference, surely a second vote that takes these developments into account is the most democratic thing possible.

                                      If you and many other Brexiteers are so convinced that we’d still vote to leave then what is the problem with this exactly? And if the country would now vote to remain, wouldn’t that be the democratic will of the people?

                                        Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                        Posted by RADSB on 6/11/2018, 12:34:53, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                        A big factor in the vote was the failure of the Remain campaign to tell us what the future was in the EU. We now know the complications of leaving but what is the plan for the country and the EU if we stayed in? More of the same? Many voted against more of the same the first time so will do so again. Plus many are just fed up with it all and just want it done - some MP's were saying even Remainers they have spoken to just want it done.

                                          Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                          Posted by Journeyman on 6/11/2018, 13:23:47, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                          Yup.

                                          Perhaps we should have a vote to clear it up.

                                          Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                          Posted by Mahatma Gander on 6/11/2018, 10:55:09, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                          As someone who voted Leave I do think a new vote is essential now.

                                            Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                            Posted by Journeyman on 6/11/2018, 11:02:41, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                            How would you vote? (if you don’t mind me asking and indeed you know)

                                              Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                              Posted by Mahatma Gander on 6/11/2018, 11:39:32, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                              I could duck the issue I guess and say "depends on what the vote is" but assuming it's Remain or accept the current mess being proposed or No Deal I would vote Remain and this time I wouldn't have much doubt about it being the lesser of two evils.

                                        Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                        Posted by crumpsall on 6/11/2018, 10:27:16, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                        That transparently couldn't have been the case as several of the key issues (Ireland for instance) were hardly if at all mentioned during the campaign.

                                          Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                          Posted by Nearly a Genius on 6/11/2018, 10:33:00, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                          Plus the various co-operative ventures like Euratom, the European Arrest warrant, scientific research, not to mention airspace and medicine quality agreements, and driving licences.

                                            Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                            Posted by Mahatma Gander on 6/11/2018, 10:41:24, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                            It shows the paucity of the Remain campaign that a lot of this literally never surfaced until afterwards.

                                            If they'd just stuck to the facts and not jumped into the gutter with the Leave campaign . . .

                                              Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                              Posted by Nearly a Genius on 6/11/2018, 11:12:58, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                              Well yes.

                                                Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                                Posted by crumpsall on 6/11/2018, 10:43:05, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                                +1

                                                Their campaign left me undecided until the last minute, the scaremongering by Osborne was as embarrassing as the obvious lies of Johnson and Farage.

                                                  Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                                  Posted by Mahatma Gander on 6/11/2018, 10:54:18, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                                  Yes I remember that we were among the few people for whom it was a close decision which way to vote.

                                                  Certainly our politicians were very little use in informing the decision, not that they were alone. It's good to see that the IMF are admitting their own fallibility on this and other matters for example.

                                                    Re: Luton is now a Remain town

                                                    Posted by crumpsall on 6/11/2018, 10:59:46, in reply to "Re: Luton is now a Remain town "

                                                    Something Paul Mason said on a late night show swung it for me. He eloquently expressed why, although in principle he was all for the UK not being in the EU (like many socialists) this was not the time as a) the people pressing for it were dishonest and working for the wrong motives and b) the government, and parliament in general, were incompetent and incapable of delivering it.

                                                    He wasn't wrong, was he!!

                                                    As the whole sorry saga has unrolled I have become much more firmly of the Remain persuasion, though I wouldn't argue for a minute that the EU is in need of massive change in many areas, and that many MEPs are self serving money grabbing hypocrites, led of course by the conman Farage.

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