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    For anyone there tonight

    Posted by Just an observation on 12/9/2017, 22:53:12
    89.243.127.186

    Do you see Hylton and Collins as a longer term partnership?

    Should Cuthbert walk straight back into the team?

      Re: For anyone there tonight

      Posted by Dublin Tony on 12/9/2017, 23:57:11, in reply to "For anyone there tonight"
      82.132.242.78

      Olly Lee didn,t miss him

        Re: For anyone there tonight

        Posted by Jon Snows buttocks on 12/9/2017, 23:16:42, in reply to "For anyone there tonight"
        213.205.251.77

        Would think he'll go with 3 CBs at Wycombe so Cuthbert will come back in and deservedly so, Hylton and Collins lack pace which is a worry but can't see an alternative unless we go with one up top.

          Re: For anyone there tonight

          Posted by Just an observation on 12/9/2017, 23:19:10, in reply to "Re: For anyone there tonight"
          89.243.127.186

          Should he get back in if it is a flat back 4?

            Re: For anyone there tonight

            Posted by Jon Snows buttocks on 13/9/2017, 7:11:06, in reply to "Re: For anyone there tonight"
            213.205.251.77

            Yes

          Re: For anyone there tonight

          Posted by Pilkinhio on 12/9/2017, 23:09:55, in reply to "For anyone there tonight"
          213.205.198.58

          Both have good movement and can finish but we lack pace now in attack so I wonder how we can win on the break away from home.

          They won plenty of balls in the air in our box, Stech was more proactive helping on crosses than on Satutday, he looks top quality. If Cuthbert stops wrestling and plays his game I think he starts.

          By the way, Macca is top class in front of the defence and was assured tonight. Best player on the pitch by a mile

          Stacey shone again



            Re: For anyone there tonight

            Posted by Just an observation on 12/9/2017, 23:11:50, in reply to "Re: For anyone there tonight"
            89.243.127.186

            With Stacey looking good is there any way of also getting Justin in the same starting 11?

            Re: For anyone there tonight

            Posted by Hmmm on 12/9/2017, 23:06:26, in reply to "For anyone there tonight"
            82.132.214.52

            Based on tonight they didn't look that great together.. I don't think they looked good Saturday either.

              Re: For anyone there tonight

              Posted by SE16HAT on 12/9/2017, 23:00:19, in reply to "For anyone there tonight"
              81.104.85.59

              Hylton spent most of the game getting the shit kicked out of him as usual! It's not a pacey partnership but it's very strong and physical!

                Re: For anyone there tonight

                Posted by Mick's Elbow on 12/9/2017, 22:59:05, in reply to "For anyone there tonight"
                81.99.118.193

                Hylton looks off the pace but assuming he picks up I think they could work well together.

                It was noticeable that when the ball went to feet it worked better.

                Cuthbert is a bit of liability I'm afraid, can be commanding but he gets himself in some awful positions.

                The anticipation of the defence was better this evening.

                  Re: For anyone there tonight

                  Posted by Just an observation on 12/9/2017, 23:01:03, in reply to "Re: For anyone there tonight"
                  89.243.127.186

                  2 sensible and polite responses. This message board is going to pot!!

                  Re: For anyone there tonight

                  Posted by HemHat on 12/9/2017, 22:56:47, in reply to "For anyone there tonight"
                  82.19.197.159

                  Unsure. They seem very similar players but there was some good ideas. Hylton doesn't look fit.

                  No. Rea and Sheehan did well against a big physical side and I didn't worry about giving away a penalty.

                    Re: For anyone there tonight

                    Posted by MK is Town Territory on 12/9/2017, 23:00:50, in reply to "Re: For anyone there tonight"
                    86.147.167.205

                    Hylton and Collins need game time together. Cuthbert is a harder question and depends on who we are playing and how physical they are.

                    Tonight was a good game to have before Wycombe away.

                      Re: For anyone there tonight

                      Posted by Omfy on 13/9/2017, 7:39:28, in reply to "Re: For anyone there tonight"
                      86.19.127.93

                      Think there may be a rather large, physical threat on the horizon this weekend!

                      Re: For anyone there tonight

                      Posted by Just an observation on 12/9/2017, 22:57:53, in reply to "Re: For anyone there tonight"
                      89.243.127.186

                      Thanks

                        Re: For anyone there tonight

                        Posted by Sussex on 12/9/2017, 23:19:44, in reply to "Re: For anyone there tonight"
                        82.34.111.84

                        I don't think cuthbert should get back in . Like to see one of the youth on the bench rather than him . He's not for me . His decision making is very poor sometimes and just too slow

                          Re: For anyone there tonight

                          Posted by The Orange Salopian on 13/9/2017, 6:05:06, in reply to "Re: For anyone there tonight"
                          86.157.133.205

                          Won absolutely everything on Saturday up to the penalty. He covers so much for the rest of the defence which is why he makes so many last ditch challenges.

                          It doesn't help having Stacey playing so far forward, the penalty came about following a break down Stacey's flank and Stacey was out of position. This is the risk you take when you play the diamond and rely on the full backs for width going forward.

                            Re: For anyone there tonight

                            Posted by jimmyp on 13/9/2017, 8:26:56, in reply to "Re: For anyone there tonight"
                            136.8.33.71

                            "This is the risk you take when you play the diamond and rely on the full backs for width going forward."

                            Or a 4-2-3-1, or a 4-3-3, or any (all) modern formation which requires the full-backs to provide the width going forward. See any team not playing 3 at the back and those that are do so, so they can allow their wing-backs to provide the width going forward.

                            FFS, back in the day full-backs went up to the halfway line and stopped. Wingers provided width and put crosses in. Everyone did this so there was no disadvantage to only having two in the middle of midfield. It's not that day any more. If we tried it, we'd probably get murdered every game. Everybody of a certain age, shut up about the diamond. FFS.

                            Cheers, Jim

                              Re: For anyone there tonight

                              Posted by Real Ale drinking Statto Bloke on 13/9/2017, 9:10:37, in reply to "Re: For anyone there tonight"
                              109.145.208.253

                              I know what you mean but the OS is correct. When we get the ball, one of the full backs usually bombs forward to provide the width. Lee had to fill in and was easily beaten giving their man time to put in an accurate cross.

                                Re: For anyone there tonight

                                Posted by jimmyp on 13/9/2017, 9:49:24, in reply to "Re: For anyone there tonight"
                                136.8.33.68

                                And again, it could be argued that that's Lee's failing, or Stacey's for making the run if it wasn't on. But also, that is exactly why we have central-defenders and failing that a goalkeeper.

                                Just because you can see something that you believe to not be desirable, doesn't mean that anything/everything else would be less bad.

                                We're only allowed to play 10 outfield players, where-ever one of them goes, there's lots of space where they're not and someone else has to cover.

                                Cheers, Jim

                                  Re: For anyone there tonight

                                  Posted by Real Ale drinking Statto Bloke on 13/9/2017, 9:55:05, in reply to "Re: For anyone there tonight"
                                  109.145.208.253

                                  That's the whole point - we can only judge what we see. We haven't seen any other formation so we don't know if they would be less bad. If he tried other formations then we might all say bring back the diamond.

                                    Re: For anyone there tonight

                                    Posted by jimmyp on 13/9/2017, 10:46:54, in reply to "Re: For anyone there tonight"
                                    136.8.33.71

                                    Which, at least you're acknowledging. My big problem with this is the why can't he see what we can all see argument. Well, it's pretty simple. No, there's not loads of width other than that provided from full-back. If you can see that, congratulations, you can see that a narrow formation doesn;t provide a lot of width other than from full-back. If you were expecting width, then the problem is with you. This goes on:

                                    If you then think that the thing that you can see is the problem because your ignorance and arrogance only allows you to think that the limit of possibilities is what you can cencieve then you'll believe that it's simply a matter of remedying the thing that you can see and everything else will fall into place. Which is absolutely fine as long as you're prepared for the possibility that every other variation is 10 times worse. The thing is, I don't believe that many of the tactical geniuses on here would acknowledge that they're in the privileged position of not having to prove that their brainwave wouldn't be an unmitigated disaster. Nor do I believe that any of them would hold their hands up should it actually happen.

                                    Now, seriously, how much patience and confidence would anybody have if he tried formation after formation with varying blends of personnel with even limited success? He gets slaughtered for not playing a settled team as it is. And then if he does that, he hasn't got a plan b. Seriously, WTF.

                                    With the best will in the world, these are fourth division players. The best thing he can do is have a plan that's reasonably simple to implement and drill it so that it's second-nature to the players and that the only real tactical challenge they need to confront is how to implement it against varying opposition. If he can blend in a plan b, that can be effected simply by changing personnel and the natural games of all involved takes care of the rest, even better.

                                    It seems like half the divs on here, and elsewhere to be completely fair, think that it's possible to make complex tactical changes mid-game and then press the play button and watch them take effect. It's great when you're at home with a bottle of wine and a few jazz cigarettes and you can stop it again and change it all if you've conceded another inside five minutes.

                                    When you're an actual manager and literally the only thing you can do is identify the one thing that can be changed - for the better - by putting bloke a on for bloke b and hoping that his natural propensity to do one or two particular things will elicit the required response from those around him, it's a little more difficult.

                                    I've heard Villa fans complaining this morning about Steve Bruce 'standing there with his arms folded - doing nothing'. I guarantee that not one of them has imagined that he's thoroughly considered all of his available options and thought, well I can sort that out but that leaves this open and how that bloke's playing it'll get us murdered and I can do that but it'll stop that thing that's actually working for us once in a while, there's literally nothing I can do that isn't going to make it worse, I'll have to hope that they manage to sort it out. I'm no particular fan of Steve Bruce as a Manager, tbf, and I haven't seen that game either but the point stands. You can see something, well done, don't assume it's the only thing that could go wrong and therefore changing it would make everything lovely.

                                    Besides, one comment is that Pelly drifted out to the left-wing and did nothing for a while. Maybe he was providing width, I've seen him do it from time to time and it's certainly not forbidden even when using a formation which is not designed to provide inherent width in midfield. So, who's right, the people who can see something or the people who can see something else in the same thing?

                                    The diamond thing, like I say, is predominantly the preserve of those who are used to playing football a certain way and get confused into thinking that because we're not doing that and not winning 10-0 every game all we've got to do is that and we will.

                                    I will accept that I'm wholly wrong of someone can name more than a handful of successful teams who regularly use an orthodox 4-4-2, right now. If only because I'm bored of arguing about it.

                                    Phew. Bit of a rant, that.

                                    Cheers, Jim

                                      I'll get back to you when I've read your post...

                                      Posted by Real Ale drinking Statto Bloke on 13/9/2017, 10:50:40, in reply to "Re: For anyone there tonight"
                                      109.145.208.253


                          Re: For anyone there tonight

                          Posted by Just an observation on 12/9/2017, 23:21:33, in reply to "Re: For anyone there tonight"
                          89.243.127.186

                          Would certainly appear difficult to bring him straight back after a clean sheet so will be interesting.

                            Re: For anyone there tonight

                            Posted by whitwickhatter on 13/9/2017, 0:02:44, in reply to "Re: For anyone there tonight"
                            109.151.73.11

                            Defence looked solid tonight against a team relying on set pieces so no wouldnt bring cuthbert back in for wycombe game. More worrying was the attack and lack of pace 2 or 3 times balls knocked past the vale defence went out where as vassell woild have got there . Dont forget marriott had pace as well and either would have been great impct subs. Not sure that hylton and colins will be a good partnership as too much alike

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