The L.C. Smith Collectors Association

The L.C. Smith Collectors Association
[ The L.C. Smith Collectors Association ]

W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns

Posted by Ken Descovich on February 10, 2024, 6:42 pm

I feel the information is lacking in this area and would like to get the early L. C. Smith collectors here so we can broaden our knowledge. I was fortune enough to add to my collection two 10 ga W. H. Baker & co. Double barrel shotguns one serial number 224 and the other serial number 287, 224 does not have a dolls head and 287 does, that is one of the differences. They both have a forend release that I have not seen on any other L. C. Smith type shotguns before and in Houchins book he only writes about a friction type forend that was patented in 1880. Attached are a few pictures in another message.

Re: W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns

Posted by Ken Descovich on February 10, 2024, 7:35 pm, in reply to "W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns"

Re: W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns

Posted by Drew Hause on February 11, 2024, 5:27 am, in reply to "Re: W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns"

Daryl's site has some W.H. Baker information
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_p_bo1ug6PWC3UiZdRtco_nvWjYmS-Ed3nbIzI_iy1A/edit

Bro. David Williamson is collecting date regarding the Baker guns
https://lcsca.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=43784&module_id=248713

IMHO it would be better to create a separate forum regarding the early Baker guns. Possibly this could be discussed at the meeting of the LCSCA at The Southern?

Re: W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns

Posted by Ken Descovich on February 11, 2024, 8:23 am, in reply to "Re: W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns"

I agree it would be nice to have a separate forum for different issues but at this time this site is not set up this way. Before aquiring these two W. H. Baker & co. Shotguns I did not know they existed it this configuration. This is when L. C. Smith was involved at its infancy and there is very little to none information out there. In waiting for spring to arrive I am trying to spark some enthusiasm and spreading the word on it.
Is there not anyone interested in this subject?

Re: W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns

Posted by David Williamson on February 11, 2024, 11:05 am, in reply to "Re: W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns"

Hi Ken, when I first started on the Syracuse L.C. Smith hammer guns I never took any serial numbers of the early Baker Guns and I didn't find out until recently that they did not have serial numbers. Daryl Halquist informed me of this.
This is the information I have acquired before Darly's site was up to date. I have in my records serial number 300 and went to 1600, this is for the 3 barrel guns and I can't remember where I got this information from, but in my records, I have 1 16 x16 x 38-50 Ballard that I have pictures of and you probably know the gentleman who owns it (Calif.) It has stamped on the top barrel "Presented to Monroe C. Smith from L.C. Smith". Monroe was Lyman's youngest brother. This was in 1877 and I believe it was the first gun to have L.C. Smith Maker of Baker Guns on the barrel. It has W.H. Baker Pat. on locks.
I have 148 serial numbers of two barrel and 3 barrel guns bukt only one that has L.C. Smith on the lock plates.

Re: W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns

Posted by Ken Descovich on February 11, 2024, 12:09 pm, in reply to "Re: W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns"

Maybe the very first ones did not have serial numbers but mine do, just browsing the internet I was able to find serial number 55 that was sold on guns international that has a wedge type forend and also missing the dolls head. See attached

Re: W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns

Posted by Stephen Sipprell on February 11, 2024, 12:21 pm, in reply to "Re: W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns"

Hi Ken,

I am very interested in the early W.H. Baker guns, and would look forward to discussing on this forum, or a sub-forum, or associated forum. I will bring it up at the LCSCA annual meeting at the Southern SxS as recommended by Drew.

As you know, the W.H. Baker guns are the progenitor of the L.C. Smith shotgun that we all know and love today. These early examples are not well documented, and thus provide an opportunity to explore, research, and learn. Daryl has done a yeoman's job in collecting information on the W.H. Baker gun, and it would be a shame to let that go to waste. Researching these old guns is one of the aspects of this hobby that I enjoy so much (and I know that you do as well).

Question, should we limit this to side by side shotguns made by W.H. Baker, or should we include the 3-Barrel guns as well? Give the small population, I am thinking we include the 3-Barrel guns as well.

Best,
Stephen

Re: W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns

Posted by Ken Descovich on February 11, 2024, 12:33 pm, in reply to "Re: W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns"

I think if we get a dedicated forum for the W. H. Baker & Co. guns the 3 barrel guns should most definitely be included, as they were both associated with L. C. Smith.

Re: W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns

Posted by Ken Descovich on February 11, 2024, 1:15 pm, in reply to "Re: W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns"

There isn’t any quality designation on the water tables so at this early stage they may have been engraved to enhance sales, just an assumption on my part. These guns came from Daryl’s collection same with the 10 ga shells.

Re: W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns

Posted by Tom Garver on February 11, 2024, 2:21 pm, in reply to "Re: W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns"

Gentlemen, please allow me to share some info from the 5 WH Bakers from my collection of 3 drillings a 12 gauge and a 10 ga. All of the drilling and the 10 ga are serialized and have the dolls head. The 12 gauge has neither attribute nor is it marked WH Baker but I know from the rifle cocking lever that it is. The serial numbers range from 184 to 1397 and 1397 is the only one with the. grade designation of B. WH Baker is stamped in small block lettering on 2 other guns, 1 is stamped in cursive and SN 184, a 10x10x44.40 drilling is highly engraved and stamped in an entirely larger block lettering. Another oddity is that the two earlier drilling have the large rifle cocking lever outside the front face of the trigger guard as the later one has the lever on the trigger assembly inside of the guard.This gun, as with the Baker Patds, require the trigger guard in place to keep the rifle cooked. Sorry I'm not able to post photos but if you reply to cedarclyffelodge@gmail.com I will send them to you. Thanks, Tom

Re: W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns

Posted by Ken Descovich on February 11, 2024, 3:30 pm, in reply to "Re: W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns"

Tom I would love to see pictures of your guns and if you like I can post pictures. I responded to your email.

Re: W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns

Posted by Ken Descovich on February 14, 2024, 1:12 pm, in reply to "Re: W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns"

Here are some pictures from Tom Garvers collection of a 3 barrel drilling that is just marked W. H. Baker and is not serial numbered nor has a dolls head.

Re: W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns

Posted by Ken Descovich on February 14, 2024, 1:22 pm, in reply to "Re: W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns"

Here are pictures of Toms fancy W. H. Baker & Co. 3 barrel drilling serial number 184.

Re: W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns

Posted by Mike Yonker on February 14, 2024, 4:44 pm, in reply to "Re: W. H. Baker and Co. Double barrel shotguns"

Looking for a fore iron for a 12ga seri If any one runs across one. Thanks MY

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