The L.C. Smith Collectors Association

The L.C. Smith Collectors Association
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Joseph Loy engraved for L.C. Smith?

Posted by Chris Shaw on May 3, 2019, 1:57 pm

There is a web listing up today that purports to be a pre-2013 Hunter era Smith engraved by Joseph Loy.

Is he known to have engraved for Smith, either in Syracuse or Fulton? And if so, are there signed examples?

The dogs on this gun to not look Loy to my eye. I would post the link, but I don't think I am allowed to do so on this forum. (?)

Chris

Re: Joseph Loy engraved for L.C. Smith?

Posted by Mike Harris on May 3, 2019, 2:12 pm, in reply to "Joseph Loy engraved for L.C. Smith?"

Chris, I saw that also. I know of Glahn, Spangler Kraus, Jerred, and some others but not Loy. He said that it had his signature or something of that sort on the bottom of the frame but I did not see it when I looked. Loy was a great engraver but I don't think so on Smith guns but you never say never!!

? Joseph Loy engraved 4E images

Posted by Drew Hause on May 3, 2019, 3:06 pm, in reply to "Joseph Loy engraved for L.C. Smith?"

We can not post links, but fortunately the seller has excellent images. He states the initials are on the bottom of the action. I thought Loy hid them in the grass?

Re: ? Joseph Loy engraved 4E images

Posted by Chris Shaw on May 3, 2019, 3:24 pm, in reply to "? Joseph Loy engraved 4E images"

Drew, thanks for posting those. Whenever I see Loy's work, there is always one dead giveaway...the upturned snout on his pointer. It's a very distinctive face which no other engraver is anything like.

I wonder if this seller is meaning an ACTUAL signature...or if he's hanging his hat on the long ago defamed "air quotes."

Thanks for the responses! I wondered whether that completely passed me by. I would definitely need to see much more Loy-like work to buy into this notion. Or an actual signature.

Chris

Loy engraving examples & discussions

Posted by Drew Hause on May 3, 2019, 4:18 pm, in reply to "Joseph Loy engraved for L.C. Smith?"

https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=446899

Several courtesy of Walt Synder
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=407844

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=285146&page=4

Re: Joseph Loy engraved for L.C. Smith?

Posted by Reggie Bishop on May 3, 2019, 6:30 pm, in reply to "Joseph Loy engraved for L.C. Smith?"

Its a darn nice gun whomever engraved it!

Re: Joseph Loy engraved for L.C. Smith?

Posted by David Williamson on May 5, 2019, 8:05 am, in reply to "Re: Joseph Loy engraved for L.C. Smith?"

Lyman Cornelius Smith hired the best engravers at Syracuse, The Spangler Brothers, Joseph Glahn and the young Albert Kraus. When Lyman sold the company to John Hunter, many of the workers moved to Fulton. The Spangler Brothers, A.E. and Milton were the first engravers to come, then Joseph Glahn and his sons (we don't know if any sons did engraving at Hunter Arms but one was an engraver for Colt)
According to many, one of the Spangler's was the best engraver of dogs and it is shown on a few examples one being President Harrison's Optimus Grade Lefever.

Signed Glahn Lefever

Joseph Glahn died in 1902 and then Albert Kraus was appointed master engraver. His dogs are also very nice.

Never saw mention of Loy ever engraving for Hunter Arms.

Re: Joseph Loy engraved for L.C. Smith?

Posted by stanley hackett on May 5, 2019, 9:55 am, in reply to "Joseph Loy engraved for L.C. Smith?"

Is there a book with photographs of the work of the engravers of classic American shotguns? Brophy and Houchins of course have examples of all grades of L C Smiths, organized by grade, and others depict examples of other shotguns, but is there a book organized by engraver, with photos? Some of the photos on this string, and others on this site, are great examples, but is there anything published that brings them all together? Thanks.

Re: Joseph Loy engraved for L.C. Smith?

Posted by tom breeden on May 5, 2019, 11:26 am, in reply to "Joseph Loy engraved for L.C. Smith?"

Some time ago a collector sent me copies of initials that are in Semmers book Remington Double Shotguns concerning a Grade DEO S/N 135955 a "highly engraved double containing the initials of Joseph Loy. The J is on the right and the L is on the left side of the frame" In another reference in the same book he makes the claim on page 179 of the "confirmed initials of Joseph Loy." As the story goes Remington didn't allow the engravers to sign their work so Loy surreptitiously entwined his initials in the engraving of some of his work. I don't have a copy of the book so I can't comment further. I believe the owner of the gun on the internet believes the lines just above the trigger guard on the trigger plate form the letters J and L.

Steel Canvas

Posted by David Williamson on May 5, 2019, 12:42 pm, in reply to "Re: Joseph Loy engraved for L.C. Smith?"

There is a book that has engravings from just about everyone that engraved, "Steel Canvas" by R.L. Wilson

Re: Steel Canvas

Posted by stanley hackett on May 6, 2019, 7:43 am, in reply to "Steel Canvas"

I have Steel Canvas, and it is good, but I would really like to find something which focused more on the classic American shotguns. Probably doesn't exist, but in any event, thanks for the reply David. Stanley

Re: Steel Canvas

Posted by Chris Shaw on May 6, 2019, 3:29 pm, in reply to "Steel Canvas"

David,

I have that book. Wilson covers much more in terms of revolvers and lever guns, but he does touch on some doublegun broad points. All the same, neither he, nor Hutchins (lovely book, but his chapter on engravers has some glaring, simple errors) assert that Loy did work for Smith, be it in Syracuse or Fulton.

So...just so Im clear, no one on the LCSCA forum has actually seen a Loy engraved Smith, right?

I feel like because Loy's work is usually identified unsigned, he is perhaps the most over-attributed American engraver.

CS

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