The L.C. Smith Collectors Association

The L.C. Smith Collectors Association
[ The L.C. Smith Collectors Association ]

Butt Plate and Grip Cap

Posted by Victor Cauffman on August 16, 2018, 7:06 pm

I have recently acquired a 20 GA LC Smith Model No. 00 manufactured in 1912 and am in need of replacement Butt Plate and Grip Cap. I believe this shot gun originally had the Dog's Head Butt plate and Grip cap with Dog's Head insert, the reason being is I have tried reproduction and new old stock plain style butt plates and they are all too small for my stock. As you can tell am new to this game. Can someone help me?

Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap

Posted by David Williamson on August 16, 2018, 8:04 pm, in reply to "Butt Plate and Grip Cap"

Victor, your 20 ga. 00 or any other gauge 00 would have the serrated butt plate and the grip cap would just be a plan oval shaped one. But you can use what you like.
If you go to gungrips.com there is a listing of butt plates for many manufactures, L.C. Smith is listed there and you can click on the one you like and it will give specs on how long and wide. Neither will fit right on as they have to be filed once on the gun to look right.
Time and patience.

Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap

Posted by Victor Cauffman on August 16, 2018, 9:10 pm, in reply to "Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap"

David, thanks for the response, but I have tried the serrated butt plate from gungrips.com and it did not match the dimensions of my stock (and the stock shows no signs of modification) and it also did not match their own sizing template. Gun Grips (NC Ordnance, Inc) Dog's Head plate for the 16/20 seems to have the correct measurements but I hesitate to order from them again because I did not find Mr. Harvey very pleasant to deal with. I bought some new old stock serrated plates on GunBroker and while they are closer than the Gun Grips product, they are still too small and the screw holes are off by a 1/4", 3" instead of 2-3/4" (Gun Grips holes matched my stock).

Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap

Posted by David Williamson on August 17, 2018, 6:12 am, in reply to "Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap"

Very seldom will you find that the holes match yours. They have to be filled in and re-drilled to match the new butt plate. You have to buy the butt plate oversized.

Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap

Posted by Michael Harris on August 17, 2018, 10:26 am, in reply to "Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap"

Victor, If you could put the dimensions that you are looking for on here, maybe someone could help you. Mike

Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap

Posted by Victor Cauffman on August 17, 2018, 1:10 pm, in reply to "Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap"

Mike, Dimensions of my stock are: 4-13/16 x 1-9/16, screw hole 2-3/4 center to center, 3/4 heel to center of hole and 1-7/16 toe to center of hole.
David, finding an over sized plate that I can grind to fit is exactly what I am trying to do. But I don't want one that I have to grind to a point that it no longer looks original.

Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap

Posted by Dan Wildhaber on August 17, 2018, 3:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap"

Victor
The serrated plate is perfect in that regard, as it has no border.
If the screw spacing is incorrect; plug them and redrill them or line up one and redrill the other. My advice is, everything else being equal, reuse the screw hole in the toe, redrill up in the heel where there's more meat. Toes can be weak sometimes.
Center it on the butt and assess the situation from there.
Wrap about three layers of 3M blue masking tape around it to keep your tools off the wood. Refresh tape if you scrape the outer layer with the file and when you get close remove the tape one layer at a time and exercise caution. Polish edge with fine paper and then steel wool.
Get originals if possible. They are made of the correct material.

runninforthebarn@gmail.com

Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap

Posted by Victor Cauffman on August 18, 2018, 12:49 pm, in reply to "Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap"

Dan, while I am new to LC Smiths I am not new to fitting butt plates. The problem I have is finding one with enough meat to allow me to do that. Having tried both reproductions and new old stock plates for a No.00, I have yet to find one that is not smaller than my stock. I learned the lesson of fitting the expensive part (stock) to the cheap part (plate) long ago and am not willing to repeat that error. One more piece of this puzzle is that there is a number 3 stamped in the bottom of my stock. Could this mean that the wood is originally for a Grade No. 3 LC Smith, and if so, does that make a difference as to which plate will fit it? For now, I will buy a Brownell's Universal Butt Plate which I know will work, and looks very much like the original No.00 plate.

Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap

Posted by Dan Wildhaber on August 18, 2018, 1:19 pm, in reply to "Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap"

I suspect that you are correct in that the stock is not original. The 3 would definitely indicate a grade 3 gun.
The serrated plate was generic, used by various makers.
Watch eBay, you shouldn't have to look for long.
Maybe throw a slip-on pad on while you're looking.

Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap

Posted by David Williamson on August 18, 2018, 2:08 pm, in reply to "Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap"

If you were to take out the screws in the trigger guard and lift it out of the inletting and swing it out of the way, if it is the original stock there will be a serial stamped in that area of the inletting.

Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap

Posted by Charlie Brooks on August 18, 2018, 7:02 pm, in reply to "Butt Plate and Grip Cap"

Victor,I have a box with a good many Smith but plates in it of various flavors that I have taken off guns over the years when I have installed recoil pads on them.If you would get past here,you may look through them if you like.I am in Taneytown Md.A good bet would be to get a new oversized plate,drill new holes in it and grind it down to fit right.I prefer to fit all my L.C.Smith guns that I shoot with a Pacmeyer Old English black pad of the needed thickness.They look at a distance very close to the original black plastic plate and work so much nicer.The work involved is about the same. Charlie Brooks 410-756-2095

Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap

Posted by Victor Cauffman on August 19, 2018, 5:29 pm, in reply to "Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap"

Can you tell me what butt plate was original on the N0.3's?

Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap

Posted by Victor Cauffman on August 19, 2018, 5:34 pm, in reply to "Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap"

Thanks, I will check. Question: Is it possible that Hunter Arms could have run short of No.00 wood and substituted No.3? I mean, after all, it was 1912.

Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap

Posted by David Williamson on August 19, 2018, 5:48 pm, in reply to "Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap"

Most of all grade designations were on the barrels water table and on the receiver's water table. Sometimes on the end of the for-end wood end grain. I have a for-end from a Specialty Grade that has SP and then the serial number which is a 4 digit number and so fits there.
I doubt if your stock is from a No. 3 as the wood on them was usually quite nice. Catalogs listed No.3's as having fine European Walnut.

I have a photograph of the dock at Hunter Arms showing a mountain of walnut waiting to be put away and dried. I doubt they would run out of wood for a lower graded gun, BUT this does not mean that it could have not be ordered that way, but I doubt it.
In the year 1912 is when the grades were changed from a number to a noun, except for the Monogram and Pigeon.

Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap

Posted by Dan Wildhaber on August 19, 2018, 6:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap"

David, you would be correct.
I was thinking of a 3 stamped under the triggerguard.
3 stamped on butt would probably be the drop.

Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap

Posted by Victor Cauffman on August 20, 2018, 12:26 am, in reply to "Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap"

I would actually call the wood of this butt stock quite nice. Since I have yet to join the association, I don't know if I can post pictures, but I may try tomorrow. The receiver and barrels both show the grade as No. 00. Not sure what you mean by "end of forend wood end grain", but the forend on mine only bears the serial number stamped in the metal followed an "R" same as the barrels and receiver.

Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap

Posted by Victor Cauffman on August 20, 2018, 12:36 am, in reply to "Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap"

I pulled the trigger guard and the 4 digit serial number is stamped there but without the "R". I really do appreciate you two taking the time to talk to me. By the way, I get the impression that the fellow in PA that sold me the new old stock serrated butt plates is not willing to take them back, so if you know of someone looking let me know.

Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap

Posted by Victor Cauffman on August 20, 2018, 12:42 am, in reply to "Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap"

Thanks for the offer Charlie, but I reside in western Washington State (about as far away from you as person can be without getting wet). If I make it back to some of the double functions I will look you up.

Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap

Posted by David Williamson on August 20, 2018, 6:29 am, in reply to "Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap"

Dan, I have seen the drop also stamped on the butt.
Victor, if you take the metal from the for-end wood, on the end of the wood should be a serial number in very small numbers.

Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap

Posted by Victor Cauffman on August 21, 2018, 1:17 pm, in reply to "Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap"

David, you are correct on the number 3 stamped in the butt stock, the drop is 3". I may check the forearm, but the bottom line is that I need a butt plate that measures a minimum of 1-9/16"x4-13/16", preferably with a 2-3/4" hole spacing, in order to fit it to my stock. Thanks again to all for the help.

Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap

Posted by Alan Nickelson on August 22, 2018, 7:37 pm, in reply to "Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap"

Victor,

I have a couple of spare buttplates that I got for my 20 ga, from the afore-mentioined repro supplier. One has the horizontal splines, 3" centers and was a bit dimensionally challenged. The other is the 'dogshead' which just makes width at its widest point, has a bit extra on length at 2-3/4" spacing.
Luckily, I did order an extra of the dogshead, one of which went on my Field grade (40's era). This extra dogshead will need a bit of flattening on the mounting face to correct the manufacturer's cleanup. It will be close on width. There just wasn't any to spare on the one I used either. However, it is better than the one that was on the 20 ga. with its shattered tip.

I think I got new screws to go with these also, which you may or may not need?

Even better, we are at least on the same side of the same state. Might be a decent chance to line the thing up for a test fit..

Too bad the darn things weren't better made with a fit allowance.

Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap

Posted by Victor Cauffman on September 10, 2018, 7:41 am, in reply to "Re: Butt Plate and Grip Cap"

Alan, sorry to be so long getting back to you. I had given up on a solution other than the Brownell's universal plate. Where are you located? I am in Sequim. I will be at the Centralia gun show this weekend if you can or want to meet there. Or, if you prefer, we can meet elsewhere.You can either respond here or call my home at

360) 683-5897 or email me at: vbcauffman@gmail.com.

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