The L.C. Smith Collectors Association
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LOP

Posted by Phil on September 7, 2017, 11:08 pm

 I have a few questions concerning Length of pull. As I understand it you could order HOT in 3 different positions. If the forward position is 1 inch further forward then if the trigger was in the rear position,then the length of Pull could be 14 1/2" if measured from a forward position but LOP would measure 13 1/2" if in the rear position. Is this correct? Can the HOT be repositioned ? Were straight stocked guns generally longer or shorter than a capped Pistol grip?

Re: LOP

Posted by David Williamson on September 8, 2017, 6:47 am, in reply to "LOP "

 Phil, when the HOT trigger became available with the 3 different positions in the back of the catalog you filled in what position you wanted the trigger at. Everything else you wanted was also on that form including LOP, so if you wanted a LOP of 14 1/4", regardless of the HOT position, that is the LOP you would get whether it was the front, middle or rear position. If the gun was sent back to the factory and you wanted a HOT installed, what ever position you wanted it at, the LOP stayed the same. The straight stock was a special order and I do not believe it cost extra, but again, on the form you gave the length of pull you wanted.

Re: LOP

Posted by Drew Hause on September 8, 2017, 8:00 am, in reply to "Re: LOP "

 1920s order form with the HOT in the middle position. "Length of stock from C to D......inches from.....position of trigger"

Re: LOP

Posted by phil carr on September 8, 2017, 8:48 am, in reply to "Re: LOP "

 Thank you good stuff. So the same gun would measure for example with a 14" LOP if the gun was ordered with a forward position trigger, butt if the same gun was ordered with a rear position trigger it would only measure 13" correct? On a pistol grip stock your hand position stays the same on a double trigger gun you simply simply slide your finger back to the rear position to shoot the rear trigger. So if you ordered a single trigger gun and normally shot a 14" LOP on a Dbl trigger gun ( length measured normally from the front trigger) and wanted a single trigger in the rear position the same exact stock would only measure with a 13" LOP? Do people normally shoot a shorter or longer LOP on a straight stock? Can a sigle trigger be repositioned or does that require a part change?

Re: LOP

Posted by Drew Hause on September 8, 2017, 9:12 am, in reply to "Re: LOP "

 Scroll down about 1/3 here for a list of...Parker...(sorry ) stock configurations and dimensions https://docs.google.com/document/d/1c7UkkNyMTZ9NAztILpzjSLKvgIneAw5i7eqkZ3d3Eno/preview By the mid-1890s Live Bird and Inanimate Target shooters were moving to some form of pistol grip. Pre-mounting guns did seem to change desired dimensions somewhat, but in general LOP for straight grips was slightly longer

Re: LOP

Posted by Michael Harris on September 8, 2017, 10:00 am, in reply to "Re: LOP "

 Phil, The LOP is measured from the front of the trigger to the very back of the butt no matter whether you ordered a front or rear position trigger placement. To change it, you need a different part. The configuration of the front to rear triggers are different but there might be someone out there that could modify what you have.Most people that change the LOP just add a thicker pad or install a spacer. Best, Mike

Re: LOP

Posted by phil carr on September 8, 2017, 2:50 pm, in reply to "Re: LOP "

 I have a hard time explaining my thoughts. I have attached a picture to help be better explain. This gun is a double trigger gun and the LOP is 14". If this same gun withthe same stock would have been ordered with a single trigger in the rear position what LOP would have been ordered? If a 14" length of pull was ordered the stock demension wise would be 1 inch longer, is tlhis correct? I have a 20 gauge specialty grade with a straight stock and only 13 5/8" length of pull yet it comes up perfect and feels right. Yet I have a pistol grip stocked LC Smith with a13 5/8" LOP and it seems short. Would 13 5/8" LOP be normal? One gun is made in the 1890's the other 1916. By the way the Specialty grade has 32" barrels and is marked 3 " chambers. Althogh it looks to be double stamped.

Re: LOP

Posted by phil carr on September 8, 2017, 2:56 pm, in reply to "Re: LOP "

Re: LOP

Posted by David Williamson on September 8, 2017, 6:43 pm, in reply to "Re: LOP "

 Phil, yes you are correct about the 1" being added to the length. If you ordered a gun with a 14 1/4" LOP and a HOT with a trigger in the front position, the LOP would be 14 1/4", if you ordered one with a HOT in the rear position, the LOP would be 14 1/4" from the factory. Also from looking at your picture, the LOP is actually taken from the centerline of the trigger. (imaginary line from top of trigger to bottom) so yours would be 14 1/8" from what I can see.

Re: LOP

Posted by Dick Miller on September 8, 2017, 8:03 pm, in reply to "Re: LOP "

 David, didn't you mean (in your second instance) 13-1/4"?

Re: LOP

Posted by phil carr on September 8, 2017, 10:43 pm, in reply to "Re: LOP "

 I have an RBL with a straight stock custom fit for me, it measures about 14 1/4" to front trigger. I can close my eyes and pull both the RBL and Specialty grade to my should both feel the same and clearance coming up to my should is the same. Lay one on top of the other and the rear trigger lines up with the single trigger Specialty grade. My hand grip falls about the same position with either gun. If my single trigger was a double trigger they would measure basicly the same LOP. I am having a hard time understanding why a stock needs to be an inch longer because it has its single trigger placed in the rear position.

Re: LOP

Posted by David Williamson on September 9, 2017, 6:55 am, in reply to "Re: LOP "

 Dick if you look at the form that Brother Drew posted you will see that they ask for the length of pull you want from what ever position the HOT is in. Therefore your length of pull would not chance from any position you ordered. Phil, in your question the LOP has to change for a correct fit. One inch shorter would mean that your finger would not be positioned right on the trigger. This only applies to guns made at the factory, if you sent the gun back for a HOT, then the factory would have to make a spacer for the correct LOP. I'm sure you have seen guns with a thicker butt plate to increase LOP or even a recoil pad.

Re: LOP

Posted by phil carr on September 9, 2017, 8:25 am, in reply to "Re: LOP "

 I agree that length of pull is measured from center line of the trigger be it the fwd trigger on a double trigger gun, or single trigger. It just seems to me that for me it is where my hand placement is and where my face comes down on the comb. I know this goes against the way guns are measured and fit, but a shorter LOP on a single trigger works for me nicely. Crazy just wonder of others find a shorter single trigger gun works fine for them. Thanks to all for all of the feedback. Headed out in a few minutes to put the gun to the real test on a dove shoot. He gun does have a spacer. When I bought the gun it had a spacer installed and seemed long for me. I will shoot it at full length and shortened this morning.

Re: LOP

Posted by phil carr on September 12, 2017, 6:51 am, in reply to "Re: LOP "

 https://imgur.com/a/p1Gzn First Band-tailed pigeon

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