Time Line For Royal Steel

Posted by Jim Thomas on July 3, 2012, 4:53 pm
24.52.143.187

Recently I acquired an F Grade hammergun serial number 79982 which indicates either a 1900 or 1925 manufacturing date. It's back action with Royal Steel barrels. I've looked in both Brophy's & John Houchins Books to try to pin down the actual year the gun was manufactured using the lenghth of time that Hunter used the Royal Steel barrels. The back action was adapted in 1902 (maybe earlier?)and the last date I could find for Royal Steel was 1918. Anyway, if anyone knows the time line for Royal Steel that may help. Jim

Re: Time Line For Royal Steel

Posted by David Williamson on July 3, 2012, 6:09 pm, in reply to "Time Line For Royal Steel"
174.49.147.138

Jim, your gun was made in 1900. It is a 3 pin 1 screw back action. In both Brophy's and Houchin's books, there is no mention of the 3 pin lock, although both show pictures of it. The mainspring is encapsulated by the bridle and this was used until 1906 (ended at s/n 14999) It is around this time that Royal Steel barrels were being used. They were the cheapest of the 3 types of barrels offered then. Grade F with Royal Steel $20.00, Best English Stub Twist, $23.00 and Good Damascus, $25.00 I believe that after 1918, Royal Steel was only offered, unless you ordered otherwise. The back action started at serial number 73001 in 1899. It replaced the 6 pin 1 screw bar action lock.

6 pin 2 screw bar action lock

Posted by David Williamson on July 3, 2012, 6:12 pm, in reply to "Re: Time Line For Royal Steel"
174.49.147.138

that is what it I should have said.

Re: Time Line For Royal Steel

Posted by Jim Thomas on July 3, 2012, 6:54 pm, in reply to "Re: Time Line For Royal Steel"
24.52.143.187

David: Thanks for you clearing up my question!

Re: 6 pin 2 screw bar action lock

Posted by Jim on July 4, 2012, 9:55 am, in reply to "6 pin 2 screw bar action lock"
24.52.143.187

David: On page 108 of Houchin's book is an exact picture of the lock on ser# 79982 of mine. It's a 2 pin one screw lock, at least that's what it appears to be. Jim

Re: 6 pin 2 screw bar action lock

Posted by David Williamson on July 4, 2012, 10:59 am, in reply to "Re: 6 pin 2 screw bar action lock"
174.49.147.138

Jim, that is very interesting. On your gun, does it have the stepped top tang or tapered. If it has the stepped top tang, it should be a 3 pin 1 screw gun. I would take the side plate off and see if the side plates serial number match the rest of the gun. The 2 pin 1 screw started at serial number 150000 in 1907. Serial number 79087 and serial number 80940 are 3 pin 1 screw, stepped top tang. If your side plates are serial numbered to rest of gun, than this would be a new one on me.

Re: 6 pin 2 screw bar action lock

Posted by Jim Thomas on July 4, 2012, 11:52 am, in reply to "Re: 6 pin 2 screw bar action lock"
24.52.143.187

David: When I purchased this gun the local (good) gunsmith was with me and said the locks had never been tampered with or removed since the gun was made. I'll go see him & have him remove them & report the numbers to you. The gun does not have the stepped top tang but a tapered one like the A-3 grade on page 118 (bottom) in John's book. I would call them scalloped or tapered. The Hunter Arms Fulton & Royal Steel is roll stamped on the top of the barrels not on the top barrel rib. Have a good July 4th! Jim

Re: 6 pin 2 screw bar action lock

Posted by David Williamson on July 4, 2012, 12:14 pm, in reply to "Re: 6 pin 2 screw bar action lock"
174.49.147.138

Jim, since you used page 108 as an example, look at the bottom picture, the 2 pin 1 screw top tang will look like this picture. On page 110 of Houchins book, the top gun (Trap Gr.) has what I call the stepped top tang. The bottom gun (Specialty Gr.) has the tapered top tang. Your gun should have the stepped one.

Re: 6 pin 2 screw bar action lock

Posted by Jim on July 4, 2012, 12:39 pm, in reply to "Re: 6 pin 2 screw bar action lock"
24.52.143.187

David: It is definately NOT stepped but the outlne is not like page 108 bottom. It is outlined like page 118 without the steps. The gun has a replaced right hammer screw and the fellow I'm taking it to will probally make one to match the other side. Also, I'm toying with the idea of having the checkering refreshed but, again, I also like origionaility. Jim

Re: 6 pin 2 screw bar action lock

Posted by David Williamson on July 4, 2012, 1:29 pm, in reply to "Re: 6 pin 2 screw bar action lock"
174.49.147.138

Jim, could you send me a few pictures showing the top tang. Thanks

Re: 6 pin 2 screw bar action lock

Posted by Jim Thomas on July 5, 2012, 10:11 am, in reply to "Re: 6 pin 2 screw bar action lock"
24.52.143.187

David: The gun is presently at the smith's but I will send pics of the top tang. Remembering this is the low profile back action, ser# 79982, 2 pin, one screw lock the rest may interest you. The locks have not been removed for decades,if forever, with even the case colors still showing. The ser#'s on the lock match the rest of the gun. The interior of the lock does not correspond to a back, or bar action! There's a BRIDLE of approx 2.5 inches of stamped metal (factory done not gunsmith )covering the entire mechinism, nothing resembling the bar action's small bridle. Hope I explained this somewhat properly. When I pick up the gun I'll get pics of the locks interior & send them to you. Jim

Re: 6 pin 2 screw bar action lock

Posted by Will Favre on July 5, 2012, 10:38 am, in reply to "Re: 6 pin 2 screw bar action lock"
208.7.132.226

Please post the pictures so we all can follow this! Will

Re: 6 pin 2 screw bar action lock

Posted by David Williamson on July 5, 2012, 10:43 am, in reply to "Re: 6 pin 2 screw bar action lock"
174.49.147.138

Jim, since you don't have yours in front of you, here are some pictures of the various type bridles and locks used. This one shows the only two top tangs that I have seen on Fulton hammer guns. The stepped top tang stopped in 1906, along with the 3 pin 1 screw lock with the encapsulated mainspring. In 1907 the 2 pin 1 screw lock started. There is a very long slender one that was used on L.C. Smith Maker hammer guns made prior to 1886.

Lock & Tang mystery

Posted by Jim Thomas on July 5, 2012, 12:00 pm, in reply to "Re: 6 pin 2 screw bar action lock"
24.52.143.187

David & Will: The encapsulated mainspring used circa 1899-1906 is the type lock style - except for the 2 pins which started in 1907. The tang is the 12 ga. 1899 style. David, thanks very much for sticking with me thru this!! I'm now convinced this gun was mfg. somwwhere around 1900 and maybe of carry over parts. Again - thanks. Jim Thomas

Re: Lock & Tang mystery

Posted by David Williamson on July 5, 2012, 1:00 pm, in reply to "Lock & Tang mystery"
174.49.147.138

Jim, if your lock has the encapsulated mainspring, then it should have 3 pins. The pin (screw post)at the rear side of the bridle, past where the screw that holds the locking plate on, is how this long bridle in fastened to the side plate holding in the mainspring. Pictures would be very helpful when you get a chance. Thanks.