Complete crack through stock head help needed

Posted by Vince P. on June 26, 2012, 12:21 am
71.194.128.72

Hi. I posted a few weeks back about a 1923 Ideal grade I was thinking about buying. I at first talked myself out of it, but couldn't stop thinking about it so I took the plunge. I plan on restoring it, but now have a bigger project then I planned on. When I first looked at the gun I saw a crack on the upper part of the head. I didn't think it was a major crack but I now know that the side plates and trigger plate can hold a major crack together. Live and learn I guess. I've attached a few pics of what I discovered upon disassembling the gun. Now of course I can just send this out to be repaired by some of the guys always talked about on this site, but I'd really like to try this one myself. I've restored several guns and while not an expert I feel my skills are above average. Anyway, I'm looking for advice on how best to handle this problem. I think I'm pretty clear on the preparation side of things. Remove finish and then soak in acetone until all the oil is removed. My questions involve the putting back together part. Can I use the super glue mentioned in the picture trails about stock repair/glass bedding (I've sealed the inletting of an Elsie before using this) ? Should I also be thinking of using Acra Glas + the super glue ? Lastly, should I use brass pins to reinforce the break. Thanks in advance for any advice. I sure have my work cut out for me. Vince

Re: Complete crack through stock head help needed

Posted by David Williamson on June 26, 2012, 5:39 am, in reply to "Complete crack through stock head help needed"
174.49.147.138

Vince, from your pictures, I don't see much if any oil soaking, but that would be a good thing to do. The thing I would be most concerned with is the wood near the broken part punky (soft)? If it is, then there is not much you can do as it will always be a weak spot. I would use a good wood glue like Titebond III or a good two part epoxy for the glue-up, plus I would put a screw from the top tang slot on an angle to just behind the locks. You can Acra-glas the stock after. Your gun looks like it was dropped, as I have never seen one break like that from shooting. If Dan May reads this he could help you out better.

Re: Complete crack through stock head help needed

Posted by charlie cleveland on June 26, 2012, 10:16 am, in reply to "Complete crack through stock head help needed"
66.211.114.250

you will need to put some pins that are threaded in the stock to really make it hold.thats my opinion...good luck charlie

Re: Complete crack through stock head help needed

Posted by patriot on June 26, 2012, 6:17 pm, in reply to "Re: Complete crack through stock head help needed"
24.14.160.134

I agree with the threaded rod; brass or stainless steel where David said to put it. On the inner surface of one of the break areas, I would knock down the jagged area with a dremel to within about a 1/4" of the perimeter of any area that will be a finished area. Leave the opposing area on the other piece of wood alone. That way when the Acraglass, Titebound, or two part epoxy, which ever you choose, the area that was knocked down when filled with with the mastick and put back together will mold around the jagged edges of the opposing piece of wood making it a stronger bond IMO, having about 1/16 to 1/8" thick area of mastick. The rest of the area of the break will get just a very thin coat of the mastick. Drill the hole for the rod after the stock has been put back together, I would warm the mastick chosen thin enough to easily get into the hole; maybe only fill the hole about one half. The reason I wouldn't use the thin super glue for the hole is, it may soak into the wood before it sets up around the rod. Then, on picture trail, pick the method want to prevent further breaks. The super glue I use only on thin cracks and for sealing areas. Anyway, that's how I would do it. Hope it helps.

Re: Complete crack through stock head help needed

Posted by bill on June 26, 2012, 7:38 pm, in reply to "Re: Complete crack through stock head help needed"
98.80.82.206

I have been using model airplane fiber glass (.003) and reinforceing areas that have tight clearances. One favorite area is behind the top lever spindle mix epoxy and wall papeer the area with the glass cloth. bill

Re: Complete crack through stock head help needed

Posted by Vince P. on June 26, 2012, 10:49 pm, in reply to "Complete crack through stock head help needed"
71.194.128.72

Thanks for the info so far, please keep it coming. David, the wood at the break is surprisingly oil free. The wood in that area seems pristine for the most part. There also appears to be no damage to the gun from a fall or something of the like to point to why the stock broke like that. Right now I'm soaking the two pieces in acetone and weighing my options. I will attempt to repair it and if that fails look at restocking options. I've read many threads on this site about restocking. Will any of the often mention stock guys who frequent this site fit a semi-inletted stock and forearm, checker it, but leave it unfinsihed so I can do the finish myself ? Thanks agin and keep any ideas coming please. Vince

Re: Complete crack through stock head help needed

Posted by patriot on June 26, 2012, 11:04 pm, in reply to "Re: Complete crack through stock head help needed"
24.14.160.134

Try Jerry Andrews 304 843 1740 West Virginia Mark Beasland 866 622 2486 Wisconsin

'Miraculous reconceptions'

Posted by Drew Hause on June 30, 2012, 2:47 pm, in reply to "Complete crack through stock head help needed"
68.2.21.200

Some amazing repairs here http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/15127852

Update with pics

Posted by Vince P. on July 29, 2012, 8:03 pm, in reply to "Complete crack through stock head help needed"
71.194.128.72

Hi. Well I went ahead and attempted to repair this break. I got all the oil out that I possibly could. Interestingly, even after soaking in acetone for over a week, using heat is what seemed to get most of the oil out. I would either put the stock under an old 10 gal aquarium on my deck in the sun or on my workbench with 500w worklights pointed at it. The oil would literally come to the surface making the surface wet with oil-I would then wipe the oil away with acetone. Anyway, I tried to fit some brass pins at the break and then used acra glas, wrapped it with surgical tubing and let it set up. I hope it will hold. I figure the worse that could happen is that it breaks again and then I'm back to my thoughts of having it restocked. Here a few pics of the process. So let me know how you think I did and any observations you may have. Thanks Vince

Re: Complete crack through stock head help needed

Posted by charlie cleveland on July 30, 2012, 9:04 am, in reply to "Complete crack through stock head help needed"
66.211.114.250

vince i think you done a good job on that stock..time your finished gonna be hard to see the cracks...glad you tried and done this yourself...i too have done a coupla really bad stocks..ive got one thats screwed together with 2 large wood screws plused glued and glassed...i ve been shooting up to 3 1/2 in magnum shells through it...ive put probably 50 magnum 3 inch and 3 1/2 through it and its held up so far...got to put the finish on it before long since its holding up...by reading and from help from the guys on here with wood im not scared to tackle a break any more... charlie

Re: Complete crack through stock head help needed

Posted by Patriot on July 30, 2012, 12:20 pm, in reply to "Re: Complete crack through stock head help needed"
24.14.161.55

Looookin' good. Looks like you put a coat of glass over all the sidelock inletting..you will probably have to scrape off the surface where the sidelocks rest or they will be too high. Also maybe other spots where the lock work meets the wood. On the inner inletting where the safety and upper tang screw tower is, I spread some of the thin super glue on the surfaces and let it soak in. Sometimes it takes 2-3 coats before it shines after drying depending on wood density.

Stock repair update with Pics

Posted by Vince P. on August 2, 2012, 4:51 pm, in reply to "Complete crack through stock head help needed"
166.249.132.103

I should of put "update" in the subject line so maybe I'd get a few more responses.