Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by David Williamson on May 2, 2012, 10:56 am

I have been collecting these serial numbers of these Fulton hammer guns and the characteristics of them. There were changes made through-out the years and for most of these early serial numbers there are no records except just the serial number, nothing else. So I am asking if you could give me your hammer shotgun serial number, it would help to determine when some started, stopped, the changes in lock styles, hammer configuration, top tang shape, when the joint check was eliminated, etc. With just the serial number I should be able to figure out the above characteristics of the gun, but also might have to ask about some of the above mentioned if the serial number is close to the production of another style. I was able to get some hammer gun serial numbers at the Southern but not all and would like your help. Thanks in advance.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by Steve Arnett on May 2, 2012, 12:36 pm, in reply to "Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

David, I believe we talked about my gun last year, and I sent you pictures of the tang, along with serial number. If you don't have mine down on your list, send me an e-mail, and I will update you on that one. Enjoyed meeting you in Sanford, and many thanks for your work on the newsletter. I have an idea or two for articles... Steve Arnett

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by David Williamson on May 2, 2012, 12:59 pm, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

Steve, it was nice meeting you also. I do have your s/n. It was a 1906 gun. Also, please write the articles up, we need them.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by Ted Quast on May 4, 2012, 2:01 pm, in reply to "Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

I have one I am trying to restore sn 158454 F. I could use some help with identifying some parts if you have the time. Thanks

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by David Williamson on May 4, 2012, 7:24 pm, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

Ted, thanks for your serial number. Your gun dates to 1908. It is a 2 pin, 1 screw back action lock, meaning the mainspring is behind the action or tumbler. See if this parts list helps you, if not I would be more than glad to help. Your bridle is #4, your mainspring is #19, hammer is #15, and extractor is #9. Any problems let me know.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by Cindy Waddick on May 4, 2012, 7:37 pm, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

I have a L.C. Smith double barrel, double trigger, hammer shotgun with a serial # 129310 F. I am trying to find out ANYTHING about it.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by David Williamson on May 4, 2012, 8:30 pm, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

Cindy, yours is from 1902. The F Grade was the lowest priced hammer gun made. A Catalog of 1906 states" With Royal Steel barrels, $20.00, for Best English Stub Twist, $23.00 and for Good Damascus, $25.00. Your gun would have a 3 pin 1 screw back action lock. The bridle to yours in the Parts Diagram is the first #4 (long bridle) and it encapsulated the mainspring, the area for the mainspring was not milled in the lock plate to hold the mainspring. Hammer would be #15, extractor would be #9 and mainspring would be #19. The top tang on yours would be stepped, and not tapered like the ones in 1907. This style was made from sometime in 1899 after serial number 73,000 to 1906 ending in serial number 149,999. I hope this has helped you and be free to ask any questions.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by David Williamson on May 11, 2012, 9:12 pm, in reply to "Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

Still looking and asking

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by Dan on May 13, 2012, 11:18 am, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

127607 F 30" Dam. Bbls 3 pin 1 screw

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by David Williamson on May 13, 2012, 12:23 pm, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

Thanks Dan.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by Carl Erickson Jr on May 13, 2012, 6:41 pm, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

My hammer gun is 25902 and appears to be a very early Fulton gun, The barrels do not say Hunter arms or LC Smith.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by David Williamson on May 13, 2012, 8:08 pm, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

Carl, I think you gave that number to me a while ago. It is a 1888-89 5 pin 2 screw back action lock with the squared lug like the Syracuse guns. This is what is called a "transition gun" with neither markings on it. There are hammerless guns like this also.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by Tom Martin on May 14, 2012, 7:26 am, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

David: In your reply to Carl, I believe that you misspoke on either the date of his gun or the type of locks. From everything that I have read or seen, the back action locks on hammer guns didn't appear until 1898 or 1899.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by David Williamson on May 14, 2012, 8:27 am, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

Tom, thanks for catching that. It would be a bar action lock. The back action lock started in 1899 at serial number either 73000 or 73001. The closest I have to bar action lock is 72926, also made in 1899. Unfortunately the records do not show a manufacturing or ship date, so very hard to know exactly when the one stopped and the other started.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by Rolf Henretty on May 14, 2012, 9:53 am, in reply to "Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

David, I have #s 128360, H68275, 173117 & 168324 Hope it helps. Rolf

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by David Williamson on May 14, 2012, 10:57 am, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

Rolf, thanks, they all help.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by Kristin Butterworth on May 17, 2012, 10:21 am, in reply to "Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

According to the serial number chart on this site this gun {with dual exposed hammers} was made in 1917 and is a 20 gauge, but I know its a 12 gauge.lol Here's the number..126246 with the letter "F" below it. Stamped on the left barrel is "Hunter Arms Co. Makers, Fulton, N.Y." Been doing a little research to estimate its value but I haven't found a description that matches this gun quite enough. Little help would be cool.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by Jim Stubbendieck on May 17, 2012, 10:42 am, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

The serial number charts are difficult to follow. Serial Number 126246 appears in the Hunter Arms Company records as a 12 gauge F Grade (hammer gun) that was finished in 1902.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by Gerald Basham on May 19, 2012, 6:35 am, in reply to "Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

David I have a 1926 Trap grade Hammer gun s/n H-91596. 12ga. 32" barrels w/beavertail forend.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by David Williamson on May 19, 2012, 7:02 am, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

Gerald, thanks, a very rare gun in that configuration. Check out Puglisi's and see what he wants for his Trap Grade.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by Will Favre on June 2, 2012, 4:54 pm, in reply to "Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

Hi David, I have another one for you F 26351 30", no name on barrels, can't tell if Royal Steel. I have to clean up the barrels to tell. Tall hammers, Joint Check and 4 pins and 2 screws. While I am at It I will update 1884 F 13483, 5 pin 2 screw 30" Stubb Twist. Firing pins are cylindrical with a dish on one side (non hour glass). Will

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by David Williamson on June 2, 2012, 5:08 pm, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

Will, thanks. I have the later one, you gave it to me before. The older firing pins were cylindrical, and on mine they have a milled out section half the diameter of the pin. Your other one is from 1889 and is a 5 pin, one of the pins is hidden under the hammer, and it should have Best English Stub Twist barrels. I believe Royal Steel came out in 1901. Brother Drew could probably tell us better. Thanks again for your information and to everyone else. Getting all of these hammer gun serial numbers, one can see when the changes were made. Dr. Jim S. has informed me that the early hammer guns only gave gauge and barrel length, there were no shipping records and no dates, so this helps to tell when these changes were made.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by Will Favre on June 2, 2012, 5:15 pm, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

David, Thank you for the additional info. on 26531. Have the barrels soaking to remove old oil that has turned into varnish. Just can't make out a pattern in the barrels yet. Will

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by David Williamson on June 2, 2012, 8:08 pm, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

Will, I forgot to ask if 26531 has the squared barrel lug like your Syracuse one. The change from square to round lug should be very close to yours, as 25902 does have the square lug.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by Will Favre on June 2, 2012, 9:46 pm, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

David, It has the square lug on the barrel lump and the "Syracuse style" convex ribs on the frame, although they are a little narrower than on the 1884.It also has a flush slotted set screw in the front of the frame the locks the barrel pivot pin in place. If you need any photos let me know. Will

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by JohnBoy on June 3, 2012, 11:41 am, in reply to "Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

I don't know if this will be of any help in your data gathering, David. I had purchased a set of barrels for use on my Syracuse gun. Barrels are Serial 29491, they are stub twist. The only stampings on them is a T on the underside on each bore (to indicate twist?). I'm still in the process of fitting them. These are rectangular tang obviously as they will fit the Syracuse gun.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by David Williamson on June 3, 2012, 12:10 pm, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

JohnBoy, thanks. I had that serial number as being barrels only and you state that it does have the squared lug like the Syracuse guns? What is your Syracuse guns serial number?

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by JohnBoy on June 3, 2012, 1:51 pm, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

Yes David, it has the squared lug like the Syracuse. Serial number on it is 14953. E grade. You had given me the information on it a while back in this post: http://members.boardhost.com/lcsmith/msg/1326214746.html

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by David Williamson on June 3, 2012, 2:43 pm, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

JohnBoy, thanks for refreshing my memory. I did have it listed, and now I have a name next to it. The 29491, even though it has the squared lug, the receiver breech balls on your 1885 would probably be much larger than the Fulton barrels to match up to, plus the for-end on the Syracuse gun is wider than the Fulton, so the mating part of the shoe would stick out on the Fulton barrels. Not saying it can't work, but. It would be nice to know when the squared lug was rounded, yours is a few thousand higher than the next one with a rounded lug. Also there are no hammer or hammerless guns in the 28000 block of serial numbers.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by JohnBoy on June 4, 2012, 10:24 pm, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

Sorry David, I have given you some bad information. Here are some pictures of the Fultons on the Syracuse reciever and some pictures of the origional Syracuse ones. I don't really know what I was thinking when you said rounded lug but now I do. You can see for yourself. The fitment is likely undiscernible to any novice, or one who doesn't study the photos. The forend fit is also very very good. Fulton: Syracuse Fitment: Fulton: Syracuse: Syracuse: Fulton: Fulton: Syracuse: Fulton: When I got the Fulton Barrels, I was unsure if I would be able to use the original ones. They were badly dented, but after about 6hours with the dent remover, they look good. Turns out they will be good enough to shoot, so, I have the Fulton ones fitted and may shoot a round of skeet with them. That is if, I can get a right side stirrup for her, before it's time for me to go. Thanks for all your help David. It's priceless.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by David Williamson on June 5, 2012, 7:12 am, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

JohnBoy, still looking for one. The barrels match up decent. Since they were a very early Fulton barrel, the transition between the breech balls and the barrels isn't as bad as I thought it would be. As for the fit in the receiver, no big deal. You are lucky with the for-end fitting.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by Ian Fraser on June 5, 2012, 7:31 am, in reply to "Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

Hi David, My hammer gun serial no. is 1070 H, it has hunter arms co fulton new york stamped on the join of the barrels. Any information would be appreciated.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by David Williamson on June 5, 2012, 7:41 am, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

Ian, that is a very early 1918 hammer gun. The serial numbers started again sometime in 1918 at s/n 101. From what I have seen, the hammer guns have an "H" prefix. Is yours the same way or is it after the serial number like in your post? Also is it a 12 ga. or 10 ga. and are the barrels Royal Steel. Thanks.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by Ian Fraser on June 5, 2012, 8:46 am, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

Thanks David. The 'H' is after the serial no. 12 ga, also has the numbers A 4 6 before the royal steel stamp. Are these shotguns okay to shoot modern loads, its in pretty good condition.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by David Williamson on June 5, 2012, 10:50 am, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

Ian, thanks for the info. The hammer guns don't seem to be as prone to cracking on the ends of the side plates. I would still use light loads through them, such as the Winchester AA Lite, or RST's and a few others that don't come to my mind. If you reload there are plenty of options. I would stick to loads in the 8,000 psi and 1200 fps range.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by Larry Connally on June 13, 2012, 8:45 pm, in reply to "Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

I have a Hammer L.C. Smith that has the serial number of 177792 with an F underneath that. It has Royal Steel Barrels. Made by Hunter Arms Co in Fulton, NY. Can you tell me the manuf. date and possible worth?

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by David Williamson on June 13, 2012, 9:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

Larry, thanks for the information. Your gun was made in 1917 and The F grade was the lowest grade hammer gun made. At around this time, Royal Steel barrels are all that was offered, but Damascus barrels could be special ordered. Condition is everything as to value, the best thing to do is look at Internet auctions that have guns like yours and see what they sell for. Don't go by what most are asking, as some have been there a long time.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by Caleb Hensley on June 19, 2012, 3:56 pm, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

Hi all, I have a double barrel hammer gun labeled "L.C. Smith" then "Syracuse NY stub twist" on the top of the barrel. The serial # is 12686 F. I know a little about it, used as a saloon gun in Wisconsin for 40-50 years but don't know the year it was made, it's model, how much its worth? Can anyone help?

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by David Williamson on June 19, 2012, 7:18 pm, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

Caleb, it would be safe to say that your gun was built in 1884. I believe the serial numbers started at 10,000 in 1883. It would be a Quality F, the lowest priced hammer gun at $55.00. Still quite a bit of money back then. As far as what it is worth, condition is everything. Also these guns are getting harder and harder to find in decent condition. The best thing to do is look at auctions to get an idea of what theirs looks like compared to yours. Also don't go by the asking price, only what they sold for, as some of these guns have been on some of these auction sites for a long time. Yours is what is called a 5 pin 2 screw bar action lock, meaning the mainspring is before the action. It will have the high hammers, Type 1 and will have at least 22 lines per inch checkering, which is a sign of good quality and workmanship. The barrels were of the best English Stub Twist on the Quality F. Good luck and post some pictures of it.

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by Joe Ray on June 20, 2012, 1:14 pm, in reply to "Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

David: My hammer gun is 12ga, 32" barrels. S: 95095 H I think it is a fairly late gun 1927?

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by David Williamson on June 20, 2012, 1:46 pm, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

Joe, thanks. Yours is the the latest one I have, the next one is 14 numbers lower and it is from 1927. Does yours have the H before the serial number or after?

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by Caleb Hensley on June 20, 2012, 3:40 pm, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

Wow very cool! I have looked at online auctions on gun broker sites but never found anything exactly like it, with the hammers and same screw design. Here are some photos of it. If you can tell me anymore it would be greatly appreciated!

This message is locked.

Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers

Posted by David Williamson on June 20, 2012, 6:10 pm, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

Caleb, that is in very nice condition for an 1884 gun. The checkering is still pointed. You can see that the for-arm took a beating resting against anything that it was rested on. The ebony tip was only on the Syracuse and very early Fulton guns. The hammers flow gently back at the tip and even those were serial numbered to the gun. The convex ribs on the bottom of the receiver were bold and on the higher grades were sculptured. This also carried over to the Fulton guns, but only as bold in the very beginning and then they were much narrower. This disappeared around 1896 in both the hammer and hammerless guns. Very nice and thanks for sharing.

This message is locked.

Locking this long thread

Posted by Jim Stubbendieck on June 21, 2012, 8:26 am, in reply to "Re: Hammer guns -Fulton origin serial numbers"

This long thread is being locked which will prevent other postings to it. I encourage anyone to start another thread on the subject. Jim

This message is locked.