The L.C. Smith Collectors Association

The L.C. Smith Collectors Association
[ The L.C. Smith Collectors Association ]

No. OO Grade

Posted by Bob Hamilton on April 30, 2012, 9:03 pm
75.4.132.66

Hello All,

I�m a new member to LCSCA and have a few questions concerning a No. OO grade that I just purchased. It appears that my �new� gun falls under the missing records category. My guess is that it is an 1898 model year (based on reviewing this topic on past posts). Here are some of the details:

1. Serial # 47278 with �OO� stamped on the water table and barrel flats under the serial numbers;
2. 12ga, Hammerless, 32� Armor Steel Barrels F/F; 2� Chambers;
3. Double triggers;
4. Bushed firing pins;
5. Old style extractor (cylinder);
6. Rounded pistol grip with splinter fore end; and
7. Patent #�s on the water table (Mar 23, �83, July 13, �86 and Oct 5, '86).

Could someone please let me know what they think the year of manufacture is(understanding that there are no records)?

Also, could someone please recommend a good gunsmith to bring her to in the Chicago area for a cleaning and check? In addition, I would also like to have the stock glass bedded, so any recommendations in the Chicago area would be appreciated.

Finally, this website and forum are excellent. Thanks to everyone who has made it possible.

Thank you for all your help,
Bob

Bachelder master Gunmakers

Posted by Jent P Mitchell III on May 1, 2012, 5:35 am, in reply to "No. OO Grade"
173.72.209.237

Send your L C Smith across the big lake to Grand Rapids----

http://www.bacheldermastergunmakers.com/Bachelder_Master_Gunmakers/Welcome.html

Welcome to bachelder Master gunmakers

1229 Michigan Street Northeast

Grand Rapids, MI 49503

616-459-3636

Re: Bachelder master Gunmakers

Posted by Bob Hamilton on May 1, 2012, 12:32 pm, in reply to "Bachelder master Gunmakers"
38.98.140.67

Thanks Jent. For some reason I�m always pulled to Grand Rapids�that�s where I found my English Setters. If they are worth the drive, I will look into it.

Is it correct that I would not be able to order a research letter on the above gun due to the lack of records? It would be nice to pin down the approximate year of manufacture, but that might not be possible.

Bob

Year of manufacture

Posted by danw on May 1, 2012, 2:21 pm, in reply to "Re: Bachelder master Gunmakers"
67.142.161.19

Bob,
The checkering might tell you something. The pattern changed at some point. The early pattern was radius-ed at the bottom and extended down onto the nob, the later design was bobbed off, straight across, at the bottom like the pistol grip design.

Re: Year of manufacture

Posted by David Williamson on May 1, 2012, 4:03 pm, in reply to "Year of manufacture"
174.49.147.138

Bob, your gun is between 1898-99. Sometime in 1899 the joint check extractor was eliminated.
The 00 Grade first came out in 1898 with Armor Steel barrels (exceptions) according to catalogs. Most has the Prince of Wales grip (rounded knob) and the checkering was flat topped with 16-18 lines to the inch. Later guns were 16 lpi. There were more of these made than any other grade, and they were still hand fitted.

Re: Year of manufacture

Posted by danw on May 1, 2012, 4:28 pm, in reply to "Re: Year of manufacture"
67.142.161.18

David, I've got a 1902 16ga which still had the rotory joint check. Latest one I've come across.

Re: Year of manufacture

Posted by David Williamson on May 1, 2012, 5:20 pm, in reply to "Re: Year of manufacture"
174.49.147.138

DanW, in all of my hammer gun research, the joint check stopped sometime in 1899. Serial number 78104 has it, serial number 78619 doesn't. Both are from 1899. I do have serial number 78379 but I do not have information if it has the joint check.
It is quite possible that the hammerless gun frames with the joint check were made longer, like yours.
That research is for someone else.

Re: Year of manufacture

Posted by Bob Hamilton on May 1, 2012, 8:30 pm, in reply to "Re: Year of manufacture"
75.4.132.66

David and Dan,

Thanks for looking at this. The checkering also matches the early pattern. Even with the extractor question, it looks pretty certain that she's a 1898-99 model year. She looks pretty good for 113-114 or so years old. I'm sure she has an interesting story.

Again, thanks for your help with this.

Bob

Re: Year of manufacture

Posted by Bobby on May 1, 2012, 9:31 pm, in reply to "Re: Year of manufacture"
74.241.72.163

This website shows a manufacture date of 1922 when I ran the serial numbers. Were serial numbers reused at a later date?

http://www.lcsmith.org/seriallookup.php

Re: Year of manufacture

Posted by Bob Hamilton on May 2, 2012, 8:02 am, in reply to "Re: Year of manufacture"
74.82.64.144

That is correct. The subject gun is a 00 grade which is a pre-1913 gun/grade. The serial number was used again in 1922. The factory records for my gun have been lost to time, which is why my 00 grade does not show up in the search. Hope that helps.

Bob

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