Original Damascus Color

Posted by Tom Salzer on April 8, 2012, 6:52 pm
173.48.190.46

I have been told by many LCSCA members, that original Smith Damascus color was black and white. However, I recently spoke with a gun smith who told me that Parker collectors have established that original Parker Damascus was brown and white. The gunsmith also mentioned that brown rust (ferric oxide) is converted to black (ferro-ferric oxide) by exposure to hot water or steam. Since black powder residue was most often cleaned from barrels with hot water, brown barrels might have turned black. Are we absolutely sure that the original Smith barrels were finished in back and white, and where is the evidence?

Re: Original Damascus Color

Posted by Drew Hause on April 8, 2012, 7:52 pm, in reply to "Original Damascus Color"
68.2.21.200

100 years of humid air and hands turns pattern welded barrels 'plum' but the segment underneath the forearm is likely to more accurately reflect original colors or the pattern contrast may be lost completely Examples of original (and refinished) Parker barrels here http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/17227428 http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/19025099 Original Parker D3 Smith barrels http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/17116222 Early Fulton Quality No. 2

Re: Original Damascus Color

Posted by Drew Hause on April 8, 2012, 8:33 pm, in reply to "Re: Original Damascus Color"
68.2.21.200

Original Chain 'Browned' Chain by Buck Hamlin

Re: Original Damascus Color

Posted by Tom Archer on April 8, 2012, 9:27 pm, in reply to "Original Damascus Color"
173.186.31.224

3-4 years ago, while attending the Southern Side x Side/Challenge Event; my eyes were drawn to an O Grade LC Smith on dealer Roger Bain's table. That gun appeared to have just been taken from its original brown paper wrappings; and to this day, is the highest condition pre-1913 Smith gun I've ever seen and was in virtually 100% new condition. But the feature of the gun that was absolutely striking was its black and white Damascus barrels; they were stunningly beautiful, and for the first time it became clear to me why so many period shooters ordering lower grade double guns preferred those fitted with Damascus barrels! Perhaps Hunter gave shooters a choice of finish, black/white or brown, I don't know; but if anyone asks me for my opinion as to the original color or Hunter's Damascus barrels, it will be black/white. By the way, that gun was priced at $5K; it sold that weekend, and rumor was that a Parker collector purchased was the new owner. I'd sure like to know its whereabouts for picture purposes so that it could be shared with members of the LCSCA; it was that amazing.

Re: Original Damascus Color

Posted by Tom Salzer on April 8, 2012, 9:45 pm, in reply to "Re: Original Damascus Color"
173.48.190.46

I think the argument for original Damascus being brown is that browned barrels would have been removed from the gun for cleaning with hot water. This cleaning would (over time) have turned the entire barrel black, even under the forearm. This argument proposes that the only way to prove that the barrels were shipped black from the factory, is to examine a barrel that has never been cleaned.

Re: Original Damascus Color

Posted by David Williamson on April 9, 2012, 11:03 am, in reply to "Re: Original Damascus Color"
174.49.147.138

Tom S., if as you say some of the barrels were put in hot water to remove black powder, not many people would have a tank large enough to put them in, second the barrels are usually left in a tank of boiling water for 5 minutes to turn black. This would not bring out the white in the Damascus barrels and they would have to be immersed in a etching solution for at least 5 seconds, then flushed with water to stop the process. I do believe that most if not all American guns were black/white and English/European guns were brown/white, leaving out the boiling.

Re: Original Damascus Color

Posted by MarketHunter on April 9, 2012, 7:03 pm, in reply to "Re: Original Damascus Color"
98.224.238.92

Any gunsmith who says that is probably one who doesn't have good luck making black and white barrels turn out. Was he from Oregon? Destry

Re: Original Damascus Color

Posted by Tom Salzer on April 9, 2012, 9:04 pm, in reply to "Re: Original Damascus Color"
173.48.190.46

David, I don't think the the gunsmith was suggesting that brown Damascus barrels became black by immersing them in a tank of hot water. He simply suggested that hot water is the solvent used to clean black powder residue. It might have been poured over the barrel or wiped on with a cloth. The idea is that many repeated such cleanings might produce a result similar to immersion in a tank of hot water, which is the method used by barrel finishers to convert brown to black.

Re: Original Damascus Color

Posted by David Williamson on April 10, 2012, 8:28 am, in reply to "Re: Original Damascus Color"
174.49.147.138

Tom whether that is his synoposis or yours I can't agree with that. There are other factors that lead up to the black/white finish than just immersing in boiling water. The barrels must be free of any oils, that includes fingerprints. If not done correctly, you will get a blotched finish. Also as Tom Archer said, he saw a Grade 0 that was in mint condition and that the barrels were a "beautiful black/white finish". Let the Parker guys think what they want.

Re: Original Damascus Color

Posted by jimmyd on April 10, 2012, 10:45 am, in reply to "Re: Original Damascus Color"
96.225.141.232

I think some one should call a true expert in Damascus.............Dale Edmonds and get his opinion 816-444-2040 Anyone needing Damascus barrels refinished or restored Dales the best in the business He also does rust bluing on regular barrels.

Re: Original Damascus Color

Posted by MarketHunter on April 10, 2012, 3:34 pm, in reply to "Re: Original Damascus Color"
98.224.238.92

"The Parker Guys" don't think this I assure you. DLH

Re: Original Damascus Color

Posted by Chris Baumohl on April 10, 2012, 3:58 pm, in reply to "Re: Original Damascus Color"
24.96.108.154

MarketHunter, You making an appearance in NC in a couple of weeks? Chris

Re: Original Damascus Color

Posted by Dick Miller on April 10, 2012, 6:13 pm, in reply to "Re: Original Damascus Color"
96.235.220.152

Destry, Chris Dunlap inquired the other day if you were going to be at Sanford this year---.

Re: Original Damascus Color

Posted by MarketHunter on April 11, 2012, 3:11 am, in reply to "Re: Original Damascus Color"
98.224.238.92

Nah, I'm not going to make the trip this year. The Michigan guys all go down for a week, that's just too long for me to take off and shoot clay pigeon. I've watched for a cheap ticket thinking I might fly in but never found anything that wasn't a young fortune. Destry