New Question about the "R" Suffix

Posted by David Williamson on March 21, 2012, 8:43 am
Message modified by board administrator March 23, 2012, 8:08 am

In going over the records for the Specialty Grade, some have noticed in the Frame column there is an R column stating 235 20 gauge guns made. Dr. Jim copied this right from the ledgers, and since no one has seen a Regular Frame we were talking on what this might be. Dr. Jim put this question under the current post "R" Suffix, asking if anyone has an ejector 20 gauge with the "R" suffix on the for-end. I thought some might not see it so re-posted it as a new topic. Hopefully, with co-operation from readers we might be able to figure out what this meant in the ledgers and also what the "R" suffix means. As I had stated in the previous post, my brief research of the "R" suffix, it is only on FW frames and I believe only on 20 gauge guns from what I have seen. Since this "R" suffix seems to be on for-ends of guns with the Curtis for-end release, and since ejector guns have the roller release latch and not the Curtis, I am thinking this means something else. If anyone can add to this, it would be appreciated.

R Suffix - Let's forget about the Curtis Forend Release

Posted by Jim Stubbendieck on March 22, 2012, 2:38 pm, in reply to "Spring Journal- 20 ga. Specialty Grade frame confusion"
76.84.67.250

Let's approach the R suffix from a different direction and forget about the Curtis forend release as we do it. I have seen a large number of entries in the records with an unexplained "R". These occur in the "extractor" books and not in the "automatic ejector" books of the same period. Since the "R" is not used in the "automatic ejector" books, I would like to know if anyone has an automatic ejector gun with the "R". Could the "R" designate something simple such as an extractor gun ("regular")? It may be that the use of the "R" just happens around the time that the Curtis forend release was used and has nothing to do with it.

Re: R Suffix - Let's forget about the Curtis Forend Release

Posted by Dick Miller on March 22, 2012, 4:47 pm, in reply to "R Suffix - Let's forget about the Curtis Forend Release"
96.235.220.152

David and Jim, FWIW I have a 1912 vintage Gr 2 20 (extractors) that has an "R" suffix, not on the forend but on the watertable. No Curtis of course.

Re: R Suffix - Let's forget about the Curtis Forend Release

Posted by Doug Ross on March 25, 2012, 10:31 am, in reply to "Re: R Suffix - Let's forget about the Curtis Forend Release"
24.128.71.38

My 16 gauge Field (Curtis for-end, extractors) has the serial number followed by R stamped on both the watertable and for-end. Gunsmith advises that this is not a Featherweight. Wood portion of fore-end also has last 3 numbers of serial number carved in it.

Re: R Suffix - Let's forget about the Curtis Forend Release

Posted by David Williamson on March 25, 2012, 2:56 pm, in reply to "Re: R Suffix - Let's forget about the Curtis Forend Release"
174.49.147.138

Doug, if your side plates have only have one screw holding them on, then it is a Regular Frame. On the end wood of most for-ends at the knuckle, the serial number is stamped across the opening.

Re: R Suffix - Let's forget about the Curtis Forend Release

Posted by Patriot on March 25, 2012, 10:03 pm, in reply to "Re: R Suffix - Let's forget about the Curtis Forend Release"
24.14.160.134

Like this

Re: New Question about the "R" Suffix

Posted by Tommy on March 26, 2012, 1:23 am, in reply to "New Question about the "R" Suffix"
108.223.21.43

I have two Smith's with the "R" suffix. Both the same except ga. and barrel length. One 20ga. 26' barrels and one 12ga. 28" barrels. Both have curtis forends, both double triggers, both three position safety, both extractors, both fw's acording to side plates. 20ga. 1915, 12ga. 1916. Mr. Stubbendieck i will be glad to give you the serial numbers if that would help. Hope this helps.

Re: New Question about the "R" Suffix

Posted by Tommy on March 26, 2012, 1:26 am, in reply to "New Question about the "R" Suffix"
108.223.21.43

Both are firld grade.

Re: R Suffix - Let's forget about the Curtis Forend Release

Posted by Doug Ross on March 26, 2012, 10:02 am, in reply to "Re: R Suffix - Let's forget about the Curtis Forend Release"
24.128.71.38

David- Left side plate has 2 screws; right side plate has 1 screw. Not familiar with for-end parts names, but serial number is stamped midway between the 2 latches (Have photo but can't figure out how to attach it to this thread.) Manufacture date should be either 1914 or 1915 (my edition of Brophy book- page 205- has a misprint regarding serial numbers for those 2 dates.

Featherweight vs Regular frame

Posted by David Williamson on March 26, 2012, 10:28 am, in reply to "Re: R Suffix - Let's forget about the Curtis Forend Release"
174.49.147.138

Doug, first thing is I would get another gunsmith, as he does not know what he is talking about. Regular weight and Featherweight have nothing to do with the weight of the gun. You do have a Featherweight configured gun. The two extra screws in the side plates is the easy way to tell, another way is the size of the barrel lug, on a Regualr frame it is 1 3/16" long and on a Featherweight it is 11/16" long. The frame size is larger also on a Regular frame. In order to post pictures, you need an account with someone like Photobucket. It is free, and what you do is after joining, download your pictures to their site. Once loaded, pick a picture, a drop down box opens and on the last one (IMG code) move your cursor into it and click on it, copied shows up, right click, copy and then go to this site and right click paste. Go to the Preview box below and see if your picture came through.

Re: Featherweight vs Regular frame

Posted by Doug Ross on March 26, 2012, 12:04 pm, in reply to "Featherweight vs Regular frame"
24.128.71.38

Thanks David- I'll check barrel lug length when I get the barrels back from gunsmith - I'll also follow your suggestion so that I may download photos.

Re: Featherweight vs Regular frame

Posted by Doug Ross on March 26, 2012, 2:34 pm, in reply to "Featherweight vs Regular frame"

Here Goes! (16 Gauge Field for-end with Serial# followed by R

Re: Featherweight vs Regular frame

Posted by Kevin Tompkins on March 26, 2012, 5:28 pm, in reply to "Re: Featherweight vs Regular frame"
74.67.190.255

Close, but not quite the correct link. Here is what you were trying to show -

Re: Featherweight vs Regular frame

Posted by Doug Ross on March 27, 2012, 8:28 am, in reply to "Re: Featherweight vs Regular frame"
24.128.71.38

Thank You Kevin!

Re: R Suffix - Let's forget about the Curtis Forend Release

Posted by John Liles on April 12, 2012, 1:25 pm, in reply to "Re: R Suffix - Let's forget about the Curtis Forend Release"
72.64.41.173

One of the auction sites is showing a 20 ga Ideal Grade with curtis fore-end release. Serial # visible in one picture is 4805 R.

Re: R Suffix - Let's forget about the Curtis Forend Release

Posted by David Williamson on April 12, 2012, 3:31 pm, in reply to "Re: R Suffix - Let's forget about the Curtis Forend Release"
174.49.147.138

Thanks John, I have seen that one before. The seller is a Lifetime Member and has a few Curtis for-end guns on there. I have emailed him a few times about Syracuse guns and he has given me 10 or 12 serial numbers of the ones he has had. If you go back to the post by Jim Stubbendieck and read what he has found in the ledgers, hopefully some information will surface on what it means.